D&D metaphysics

[cellio]

I've been thinking about Larissa's next spell, and it has raised a question that I'd like feedback on. Recall that I haven't really played mages before, excluding those early munchkin days where factors like role-playing and deep ethical musings and stuff were just Not Issues. Maybe there is a well-undertstood answer, or maybe there isn't.

Can a good character use summoning spells?

The answer would seem to depend on how summoning works. Is Summon Monster, as the name implies, really a summoning spell -- plucking a creature out of its natural habitat and teleporting it here to fight for you? Or is it a cojuration, a fabrication that is formed out of the ether and will dissipate a few rounds later when the spell runs out?

If it is a summoning, then does the creature have its normal level of free will that is being surpressed by the spell, or is it a mindless automiton? As the description is written, the creature will fight for you without question -- but if it's a summoned creature, is that achieved through coercion?

Other issues come up if it is a summoning and not a conjuration. Is it right to send a summoned creature into a situation that will very likely be fatal to it? Does one have an obligation to heal one's summoned servants? (I would argue that if the spell is a cojuration and not a summoning, the answers are yes and no, respectively.)

And what is one to make of the fact that the bulk of the creatures that can be summoned, at least at low levels, are of evil alignment?

(For those LJers who are in the game, I also sent this question to the mailing list.)

Comments

[ralphmelton.livejournal.com]

I really love how willing my players are to embrace tough questions like this.

Even when it challenges me like this. :)

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Whee. So, some things to point out:

Summoned creatures cannot die or be permanently affected by anything that happens to them during the summoning spell's duration. They aren't really actually here, they're just temporarily here by the effects of a spell. This is the difference between summoned and called creatures--called creatures (such as contacted by the spells Lesser Planar Ally and Lesser Planar Binding) really are here, and can be affected permanently by what happens to them. If a summoned creature is 'killed', the spell ends and it is merely returned to its home plane, and continues to be in the same state of health it was before the summoning started. This works the same way even when the creature comes from the material plane, as is the case for Summon Nature's Ally.

You cannot summon a particular individual creature using Summon Monster. Presumably, the spell goes to the appropriate plane and 'asks around' for a creature to be summoned. It's not specified whether or not the creature is willing, but it seems not unlikely that willing creatures would be preferred to nonwilling ones. So, the larger number of fiendish creatures could just reflect the stronger tendency of fiendish creatures to be randomly aggressive. There is a variant of the spells where you do summon an individual specific creature each time, but the first time a creature is summoned, this still applies.
As another note, if you assume that the creatures summoned are willing, then it's not unreasonable to assume that they are also likely to be munchkins. Your summoning of it to fight gives it free XP, which is something many munchkins would jump at the chance for. :)

[cellio]

Summoned creatures cannot die or be permanently affected by anything that happens to them during the summoning spell's duration.

Aha. I didn't know that. Where should I have looked that up?

Thanks for the information!

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Player's Handbook Pg 157, under Conjuration/Summoning.

Admittedly the text needs a little interpretation, but what I've said above seems to be not uncommon as a viewpoint. I could swear that at some point I read something that stated this more explicitly, but I can't find it now. :( Oh, and don't take that bit about creatures 'reforming' too literally. That makes absolutely no sense for creatures summoned from the material plane, so can't be true of summoned creatures in general. (It probably is something weird about wizard summonses, since they all come from other planes).

Dungeon Master's Guide Pg 96 (for the summoning variant).

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Bleh.
I just downloaded the Rules FAQ from www.wizards.com.
Bottom of page 40 in the question about Animal Friendship'ing summoned animals, this is stated explicitly.
(GAAHHH, WHY did they have to make it a zipped pdf?)
Anyway, the URL is
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/er/er20020215a

Scary

[mrpeck.livejournal.com]

That FAQ is just way too long.

Re: Scary

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Yes--see the complaint about PDF format. A nicely crosslinked HTML document set might have been better.

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Oh, also: what alignment are you? If you're LG, then you don't need to worry as much--the ensurance of an individual's free will is a Chaotic trait primarily.

[cellio]

Larissa is NG, so she considers free will to be a factor (but not the only factor).