kitniyot

[cellio]

Pesach is in a few weeks, and this week at services Rabbi Freedman gave his kitniyot rant (as he described it).

Kitniyot is a class of food that isn't, strictly speaking, forbidden during Passover, but the Ashkenazi world has a long tradition of banning it as a fence. This includes foods such as rice, legumes, corn, peanuts, and their derivatives. (This is, for example, why you'll be able to find special Coke in the stores in a couple weeks. Corn syrup is kitniyot, but some bottlers produce Coke with real sugar for Passover. Even if you don't keep kosher or care about kitniyot, this is a score for taste reasons.)

Rabbi Freedman believes that kitniyot has made things so complicated that less-committed Jews just throw up their hands and don't try to do kosher-for-Pesach at all. So he is encouraging people to eat kitniyot and focus the energy they save on the real issues, the 5 grains and leavening. Eat the peanut butter and don't worry about the Coke, but really clean out the bread and cakes and beer. A worthy goal; I wonder if anyone who was there will actually follow up.

My personal practice thus far has been to not stress about kitniyot but not offer it to guests (in case they keep that stringency). And I avoid "deliberate kitniyot" -- that is, corn syrup in the Coke is ok but I probably won't actually cook up a pot of rice and beans.

Comments

Derivative of a fence

[goljerp]

I avoid "deliberate kitniyot" -- that is, corn syrup in the Coke is ok but I probably won't actually cook up a pot of rice and beans.

That's an acceptable halachic position, by the way -- because when you're eating corn syrup, you're eating a derivative of kitnyot. Since eating derivatives is a fence, and not eating kitnyot is a fence, eating derivatives of kitnyot is a fence², and as fence approaches 0, fence² approaches much more quickly, so it's OK to drop that term to make the math easier.

Of course, in today's atmosphere of chumras, I doubt you'll get anyone at the OU to admit this.

Rabbi Freedman believes that kitniyot has made things so complicated that less-committed Jews just throw up their hands and don't try to do kosher-for-Pesach at all.

Interesting. I have some friends who don't do much traditional Jewish observance. (They don't keep kosher, will work on shabbat although they don't like doing so, etc.) However, when pesach comes around they go wild and make their home as kosher for passover as possible. (Several times over the last several years I've been their non-rabbinical pesach consultant.)

Their theory is: it's only 8 days, we can survive eating only food marked "kosher for passover" and doing cleaning and preparation beforehand. (hey, what's that bit of pasta doing under my keyboard? Hm. Should I leave it for the search for chametz? Nah... Sorry for the aside.)

Having brought up a counter-example, I still think that your rabbi has an interesting point.

Corn syrup is kitniyot, but some bottlers produce Coke with real sugar for Passover. Even if you don't keep kosher or care about kitniyot, this is a score for taste reasons.

Yup. Coke with sugar is the real coke formula, from back before the dreadful "new coke" episode. After that they went to corn syrup, but true coke afficandos can tell the difference and stock up on kosher for passover coke.

[celebrin.livejournal.com]

I started keeping Kosher for passover about 7 or 8 years ago. I may be weird, but I never sweated the kitniyot. I didn't eat bread, pasta, and anything made with flour that wasn't Kosher for Passover. I ate corn (though not popcorn) and sometimes rice. I think I like your rabbi.

Coke though--that was always the best bonus.

[jeannegrrl.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm half and half - my Mom was Ashkenazic and my Dad's Sephardic. But I wasn't brought up with anything. Hillel's all Ashkenazic, but would go along with me if I wanted to keep a Sephardic Passover kitchen. Though with that said, in our 5 years together, I haven't done it. I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe partly because I want others who observe the kitniyot thing to be able to eat in my home. Maybe because part of me likes to go the extra step. In anycase, this year, the first night's seder's at our home, and just to be on the "safe" side, there will definitely not be kitniyot at the table, and I'm absolutely fine with that - for the sake of our guests if nothing else. But I'd be a liar if I didn't admit that sometimes the fences get annoying (you don't get me started on mixing chicken w/ dairy!)