Transporters

[cellio]

This question stolen from browngirl (who got it from someone else):

Let's say I had access to a Star-Trek-style transporter. Limited range; can't use it for interplanetary travel. Can move me and anything I can carry, eg change of clothes. Each time I got zapped to a new location, it'd cost me twenty bucks. What would I do with it?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about the following. My first reaction was: halachically, could I travel east immediately after Shabbat? :-) In other words, if it's not Shabbat any more where I am, but it will be where I'm going, is it permissible to use the transporter?

That question aside, I would use this device to visit the friends it's impractical for me to visit now. An evening with Lee and Barry in LA, or with Harold and Becky in DC? Sure, no problem. Pop in to Boston to visit folks there? Yup. Convention in Europe? No problem. Pop out some evening to, oh, Australia to watch sunrises over the Pacific? Sounds nifty. If the space station is in range, I'd love to go there and get a different perspective on our planet. And, yeah, Simchat Torah in Israel, at least once.

Sight-seeing -- in small, managable doses -- would probably be pretty high on the list. Such a device would also fundamentally change the nature of tourism in one way: when there's breaking news of something interesting happening in a distant place, there would suddenly be lots of people popping in to see for themselves. This would probably not be good overall; while some of us would go to see the perfect eclipse or a shuttle launch or whatever, lots of folks would go to gawk at disasters. Not my idea of entertainment. (Of course, the technology could also be used to deliver immediate aid.)

Comments

[geekosaur]

Dunno about you, but I would probably start working on countermeasures. (See Niven, "The Theory and Practice of Teleportation" --- although I note that while he saw the physical security angle, he missed the issue of securing the transmission. He did note one of those issues at the start of The Ringworld Engineers, but missed the one that should have been obvious from the second half of A World Out Of Time.)

[cellio]

Oh yes -- Niven should be required reading for anyone who longs for the convenience of a teleporter in his living room. :-)

[goljerp]

although I note that while he saw the physical security angle, he missed the issue of securing the transmission

I seem to recall that The Collapsium deals with this -- it's been on my "must read" list for a while, but I haven't actually read it yet. (So please don't spoil me with details!)

[goljerp]

halachically, could I travel east immediately after Shabbat? :-) In other words, if it's not Shabbat any more where I am, but it will be where I'm going, is it permissible to use the transporter?

I think that this is a job for Purim Torah.

I could argue it either way...

[cellio]

Hmm. Perhaps, closer to Purim, we should each pick a side and go to it. :-)

Transport

[lefkowitzga.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry about the $20 price tag, that means it is not feasible to end rush hours forever. I would be interested in using it to visit friends and new places as well.

Also, depending on size and weight restrictions, I would start a delivery business and service retail companies. Phone the store, put in an order, and your stuff is delivered within an hour. That would be great, especially for furniture and appliance companies.

[the-never.livejournal.com]

For 20$? Geez. I might use it on weekends to go visit places I miss but don't get much chance to see. I miss Texas, and I don't live near caves anymore. (I used to like spelunking).

I'd probably also use it to arrange weekend get togethers with everyone on my lj-friends list!

I don't think I'd take advantage of it in other ways, to promote world peace, or use it for sight-seeing, strangely enough. I'm too reclusive and motivationally challenged for that, and I'm practically xenophobic about travelling outside the US. (I'd never even left Texas until I was in the Army).

I bet my wife would use it every weekend to go see her mother!

Travel and Shabbat (slightly off-topic)

[dagonell.livejournal.com]

I would have thought the Shabbat question would have been covered already. Can you fly east on an airplane after Shabbat? If you cross the IDL, it's Shabbat again. This has never been discussed? Actually your response brought up a different issue in my mind. What is Shabbat onboard a space station? With the right orbit, you could have a sunset every four hours. For that matter, what is Shabbat at the Antartic Research Base? Sunset is once every six months.

Re: Travel and Shabbat (slightly off-topic)

[cellio]

Well, the Shabbat question would depend on mechanics, in part. (Actually, goljerp, I would say forbidden and start with "boneh" ("building"), because the transporter involves reconstructing you.) With planes or cars, for example, the argument doesn't get very far because there's concensus on combustion engines being a problem (fire). Suppose you take that away? Some permit electricity (otherwise) and some don't, so you'd uncover the next layer of issues.

There is halacha on how to treat time -- other than Shabbat -- when crossing the date line. For example, how many nights do you light Chanukah candles?

The space station and Antartica have similar answers: you don't rely on local solar time when that's meaningless, but instead use an external point of reference, the time used by the "nearest Jewish community". So for Antartica that'd be some point in Australia or perhaps South America (depending on where you are); for the space station there are actually three opinions: your home city, the city of departure (e.g. Houston or Miami), or Jerusalem (arguably a planetary default).

Re: Travel and Shabbat (slightly off-topic)

[cellio]

Oh right -- and there is also halacha, though I don't know what it is, for the case where you're, say, on a cruise ship -- multi-day journey that crosses time zones and the date line. I don't know if anyone has considered faster forms of transportation; it's pretty much impossible for anyone relying on commercial airlines to begin a journey after Shabbat and arrive anywhere while it's still Shabbat. :-)

I suppose the question exists now for driving: if I wait until Shabbat just ends, hop in my car, and drive due east at a high rate of speed to visit friends for whom Shabbat has not yet ended, is that a problem?

Re: Travel and Shabbat (slightly off-topic)

[goljerp]

Hmm... I think you'd have to be travelling pretty quickly for this to be a problem, which makes it forbidden for reasons of Pikuah Ha Nefesh (to save a life) and the rabbinic ruling that you have to follow the laws of the land. (For those keeping track at home: remember that the end of shabbat is pegged essentially to seeing 3 stars in the sky; this is less finely granular than sunset is. As far as the beginning of Shabbat, I think that someone did consider what happens if you live in a valley and walk up so that the sun un-sets. Alas, I don't remember what the ruling was.)

Re: Travel and Shabbat (slightly off-topic)

[cellio]

I was assuming (without doing the math) that points far enough north or south would permit faster transitions (without violating local speed laws, which might not be present anyway). If you prefer, postulate a private jet ready to take off as soon as you spot the 3 stars and hop aboard.

Re: Travel and Shabbat (slightly off-topic)

[goljerp]

I was assuming (without doing the math) that points far enough north or south would permit faster transitions

Ah. I was assuming we were talking about places somewhere around our latitude.

There's probably an ideal latitude for this trick; if you go too far North then you run into the problems with midnight sun / no sun.