this is so wrong

[cellio]

The House is currently considering a bill to declare a national day of fasting and prayer to seek help from "Providence" in these times of terror and war.

My representative will certainly be hearing from me about this blatant disregard for the separation of church and state. Much as they would like to make it so, we are not a Christian nation -- just a nation with a Christian majority. This has no place in government.

From the bill:

Whereas all of the various faiths of the people of the United States have recognized, in our religious traditions, the need for fasting and humble supplication before Providence;

"All the various faiths"? I don't think so. For starters, atheism can be a "faith" rather than an absence of faith. And I'm not so sure that all of the eastern religions have this concept.

Whereas humility, fasting, and prayer in times of danger have long been rooted in our essential national convictions and have been a means of producing unity and solidarity among all the diverse people of this Nation as well as procuring the enduring grace and benevolence of God;

Asserting it does not make it so. Show me those roots in our essential national convictions, Mr. Akin (the sponsor).

Thanks to magid for the link.

Comments

[autographedcat.livejournal.com]

Let me know if they pass this day. I'll be sure to blow off my diet as much as possible. :)

Lust is my favourite sin, but gluttony in a good cause is worth exploring.

-R

[cellio]

I assume that if it passes we'll all hear about it. It doesn't do much to declare a national day of [observance of choice] if you don't tell people what they're supposed to do. On the other hand, this is Congress we're talking about...

[eub.livejournal.com]

<cynicism>Maybe they're less interested in making everyone pray than in telling their power base that they made everyone pray.</cynicism>

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Given the sensitivity of our government - how much would you like to bet that it's a Saturday, when Jews are forbidden to fast (with the single exception of Yom Kippur if it falls then?) I mean, they certainly wouldn't choose a weekday, so it's 50/50.

worse than 50-50

[cellio]

I find it highly unlikely that Bush would declare a national fast day on his sabbath... so if it's not a weekday, it's going to be a Saturday.

Re: worse than 50-50

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

See, I'm not so sure about this. Is there the same prohibition on fasting on Sunday for Christians? Because, seriously, I can see that as something regarded as positive and appropriate.

Re: worse than 50-50

[cellio]

I hope that if any Christians are still reading this thread, they'll speak up.

That said, Sunday is the "lord's day" (it didn't start out as the sabbath, I'm told). It's a festive day, like Shabbat is for us. Lenten food restrictions are suspended on Sundays, and I think funerals are never held on Sundays. So I'm guessing that fasting on a Sunday would be considered to be inappropriate, though I could of course be wrong.

Re: worse than 50-50

[rectangularcat]

I think you are right. Sundays are feast days and Fridays are traditionally the fast days but not really a fast and rather a no meat and luxuries day. I remember my mom saying that she hated eating fish every Friday when she was a child. I think that Good Friday may be an all out fast day... not much of an observant am I?!

[magid.livejournal.com]

Besides all the inherent wrongness in this bill, I keep wondering what they mean by fasting. I know what I mean by fasting (no food or liquid), but I've run into a variety of definitions (no food, but liquids; only fruits and vegetables; no meat; no chocolate...).

This is so in the realm of religious leaders, and so not in the realm of government...
a

[cellio]

Good point. The canonical Christian fast is very different from the canonical (if you'll pardon that word choice :-) ) Jewish fast.

[goljerp]

Not to mention the Canonical Muslim fast of Ramadan... when I first heard about Ramadan being a month-long fast, my thoughts went something like, "... but people can't survive without water that long!" (It's actually a "daytime" fast; people eat before sunrise/after sunset.)

[rectangularcat]

Funny that they have to resort to fasting now that the body bags are coming in. That last statement makes me sound much more cynical than I really am though.

[tashabear.livejournal.com]

Let's not paint all Christians the same color, though. I grew up in the Congregational Church, and I don't remember any emphasis on giving things up for Lent, and we don't have fast days or feast days (except for holidays, when my family did feast mightily). I have no idea when we'd fast, if ever, except for maybe the OxFam fasts, when we'd do that during school to be smarmy at non-participating classmates.

[cellio]

Let's not paint all Christians the same color, though.

Wasn't trying to, but I can now see how I gave that impression. It's probably an effect of our extremely-Christian president trying in various ways to foist off his particular religion on the rest of us.

Anyway, I know full well that not all Christians believe the same things, and I strongly suspect that many Christians are just as opposed to this bill as I am.

[tashabear.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I'm still a Christian or not, but I am opposed to the bill. The wording you quoted makes me cringe.

I do not want to live in a theocracy.

[geekosaur]

Re "essential national convictions": the Puritan ethic has always been somewhat symbolic of U.S. culture (and provided the impetus for some of its sillier aspects, e.g. violence is fine but sex is verboten).

It says something, especially in the past few years, that our culture is largely shaped by the values of a bunch of religious nutcases....

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

AARRGGHHH. Sigh.

Be nice if Bush II & co got some humility out of the deal, though. :) Perhaps they just mean humility for other people, like, say, France and Germany...

Thanks

[psu-jedi.livejournal.com]

Saw your post from JeanneGrrl's friends page. I was going to write the MD guy who co-sponsored this, but he's not in my district, and I didn't figure I'd change his mind much. So I wrote my MD rep instead. I've alerted my friends and co-workers to it as well. I was very surprised to hear about it on our local news radio station yesterday, and I might not have paid attention to it if I didn't see it on your page earlier. Thanks.

Re: Thanks

[cellio]

You're welcome. (Though I'm not the first LJ person to find it; I got the link from magid, and I don't know where she got it.) Thanks for writing to your rep. I didn't even try writing to the sponsor; I figured he wouldn't pay any attention to a non-constituent. But I did write to mine, for what that's worth.