"chosen"

[cellio]

A conversation with geekosaur prompts me to write about the idea of "the chosen people".

I think there are a couple problems with that phrase. First, let's talk about "chosen". The word "segula" poses some problems for the rabbis; it doesn't show up much and (I gather) it seems to have different connotations in different places. I understand that "treasured" or "precious" is a better translation, though I'm just repeating what others have said to me.

But the real problem with the phrase is "the". It's not there, and I don't think that's an oversight. "Am segula" has no definite article; it's "a [treasured, precious, chosen] people", not the.

But that makes sense. God tells us that we aren't the only ones he deals with; both Torah and Prophets contain testimony to that effect. There are certain nations we have to leave alone because they also have relationships with God. But, more broadly, why can't God have lots of treasured peoples? We humans tend to have lots of treasured possessions, too; is it so different?

It seems to me that the proper response to "we're chosen" is "for what?". If we are chosen, it's that we're chosen to do a particular job. God chooses different peoples for different tasks, just as a craftman chooses different tools for different parts of the job.

Our job, it appears, is to be a "kingdom of priests" to the rest of the world. What does that mean? Originally, it probably meant introducing monotheism; now, I think it means influencing others in ethical behavior. (And, of course, you can't work on others until you improve yourself.) Ethical behavior isn't the reason for all the mitzvot, but, somehow, it is a result of many of them. As for the others, well, we don't always know God's reasons for things.

(And no, this doesn't mean prosyletizing, at least not in the evangelical-Christian sense. Tradition holds that when the moshiach (messiah) comes all the world will bow down to the one God, but that's a far cry from converting everyone to Judaism.)

Comments

[geekosaur]

Well sure; it's our story, our book, and our covenant. Other peoples can go get their own. :-)

Some things would be much easier if the Christians had gotten their own.... :/

[cellio]

Definitely. As an alternative path to God, Christianity would have been mostly [1] just fine. As replacement theology, it doesn't work.

[1] Interpretations that Jesus is God have to do some dancing around accusations of polytheism.

[geekosaur]

Interpretations that Jesus is God have to do some dancing around accusations of polytheism.

And here we've come full circle (go read the first paragraph of my musings from this morning again). It's not just that angle, and the one I mentioned, but also that it's an end run around "no graven images". And several other similar distortions of the original — and ultimately the "dishonesty" of the Trinity as defined by the Nicean Creed is what made me reject Christianity.

[goljerp]

I was going to write some long analogy with the Mac OS as Judiasm, Windows as Christianity, and Linux as Islam, but that would really be igniting a holy war, wouldn't it?

[cellio]

*laugh*

(Except doesn't Linux "spiritually", if not "concretely", pre-date Mac OS? I mean, Linux is basically Unix, and that's been around forever. How old are the forerunners of Mac OS?)

[goljerp]

Well, yeah, that is where it breaks down. I guess I was thinking in terms of GUI, but X11 is still fairly old. Also I think that there are more followers of Islam relative to Judaism and Christianity than there are people using Linux relative to Mac and Windows.

Hmm.... getting out an old almanac...

Worldwide as of mid-1995:
Christians: 1.9 E9
Muslims: 1.1 E9
Jews: 0.01 E9

Yep, ratios not the same at all.

[geekosaur]

Heh. I'd like to see it (although, Linux as Islam? Somehow I don't quite map a tendency toward Wahhabism to those kiddies...). :/

[cellio]

and ultimately the "dishonesty" of the Trinity as defined by the Nicean Creed is what made me reject Christianity.

Historically there was a lot of argument about the trinity. I'm not up on the various eastern orthodox churches, but you might find more palatable interpretations there. Of course, that's not your only issue so you're not likely to go off and join a church; I'm just saying that Christianity isn't monolithic, and any particular bit of problem doctrine or practice might be localized in one denomination. If it ever matters, ask someone.

It has taken me a long time to learn what parts of Roman Catholicism are specific to that church and which are general Christianity, and I still don't have a complete handle on it. 35 years ago RC Sunday school taught RC=Christianity, and that caused a lot of confusion.

[amergina.livejournal.com]

Somewhere, (I hope) you have the book "When Jesus became God" which I lent to you a while ago. :)

[cellio]

Sure do. Need to get back to it (started to read it and got distracted by something), and didn't want to attempt to cite from memory. Thanks again for the loan.

[geekosaur]

Acceptance of the Nicaean Creed is supposed to be the defining aspect of whether a faith is "Christian" or not; and yes, this caused a bunch of problems with the Orthodox branches; my understanding is that they ultimately adapted, although they still tend toward what the Roman-derived faiths consider heretical doctrines. amergina probably knows more about this, though.

[amergina.livejournal.com]

If I recall correctly, Orthodox churches say: We believe [...] and in the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father [...] while Catholics say: We believe [...] and in the Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the Father and the Son [...]. This is the main doctrinal difference between the churches.

Again, as I recall, the Orthodox church is considered schismatic, but still a "true" Church by the Holy See in Rome. They are Apostolic, as is the Catholic Church, meaning, they get their authority direct from a line from St. Peter. Their Mass is considered a true celebration of the Eucharist. (in face, the Eastern Rite branch of the Catholic Church uses the same liturgy as the Orthodox Church, with some additional pray for the Pope bits, and the "and the Son" bit tacked into the Creed.)

The Orthodox have issues with the organization of the Roman Church, mainly with infallibility and supremacy of the Pope.

Here's a link: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/22/story_2251_1.html

[geekosaur]

I should also mention that since my SCA persona is a Greek shortly after the Turks took ConstantinopleIstanbul, I've been studying Byzantine beliefs and the various arguments between Rome and Constantinople over beliefs....