tale-bearing

[cellio]

Suppose you are, say, at a convention in another city. You step into a room to hear someone you know talking with a group of people you don't know. The person you know is griping about his landlord (without naming names). The landlord is a friend of yours and is in a nearby room.

Do you (choose all that apply):
(a) listen in unobtrusively;
(b) fetch the landlord and tell him to listen in;
(c) repeat the tale verbatim to the landlord later;
(d) give the landlord some general feedback (e.g. "have you fixed that roof yet?");
(e) approach the group with some general comment about dealing with landlords;
(f) approach the group and say something like "how dare you talk about Joe Blow like that"; or
(g) shrug it off; it's up to the person to approach the landlord himself if he wants things to change?

It would never occur to me to do (b), (c), or (f); it seems like it can only cause hurt to the landlord. Depending on how close my relationship to the landlord is and what else I know of the situation, I might do (d), (e), and/or (g). I suspect I am not always strong enough to avoid doing (a), though walking away is the correct thing to do most of the time.

I'm sure that at times people say unflattering things about me outside of my hearing. That's a fact of life. In some contexts I am a public figure and have to expect that, and anyway, people talk and rant and gossip and that's just something we all have to live with. I figure that if it's important, the person with a complaint will find some way to let me know about it. And if not, well, I can't address problems I don't know about and the other person just has to realize that. No one told me about any telepathy requirements in human interaction, and I don't buy the approach of "leaking" the gripe to mutual friends and relying on it getting back to the person. That kind of sneakiness bothers me.

I have had an encounter with someone whose beliefs about such situations are very different from my own. I thought that by writing this down I would come to some understanding of why the options I find obviously incorrect might be obviously correct to others, but so far that insight is eluding me.

Comments

[alienor.livejournal.com]

I think there are two types of tale bearing:

a) I want to tell you about Joe Blow because I can't/won't tell the person I'm upset with.
b) I want to tell you about Joe Blow because Joe Blow isn't here to tell you himself.

What's the difference? In (a) I've made a specific effort to exclude JB, whereas in (b) he happens to not be around. If Suzy tells JB you were talking about him, in (b) it's okay, but in (a) it may or may not be.

So how does Suzy know to mention it to JB or not (assuming she's that type of person)? In LJ it's actually a little easier, becuase you can filter against that person and by letting your readers know your filtering against them, let Suzy know you don't really want this to get back to JB.

Okay, that turned out more random than I planned.

If you're talking about what I think you are, the only thing I can suggest is to look at this statement again.

I figure that if it's important, the person with a complaint will find some way to let me know about it.

Important can have different values for different people. I may not like the way Sorcha's garb, but it's not important enough for me to mention it, even though I know a few historical inaccuracies she's bought into. She may take an extreme amount of pride in her garb and be upset that I knew a few ways she could make it better without telling her; especially when I've turned down her assistance in making a similar garment for myself without a reason.

The accuracy of her garb was of minor importance to me, but major importance to her.

If you ask someone the above question about a situation that is not important they may give you a different answer than they would about a subject that's important to them.

People are inconsistent, and I bet that's why insight is eluding you.

[siderea]

She may take an extreme amount of pride in her garb and be upset that I knew a few ways
she could make it better without telling her

Oh, really? Funny. Most people I meet tend to think offering unsolicited garb authenticity advice post hoc is ge nerally not only not required, but actually rather frowned upon. As I understand it courtesy demands waiting to be asked (or offering it most extraordinarily humbly) before correcting someone else's work. Your Sorcha seems to be getting bent out of shap e for other people following basic etiquette.

The only cause for Sorcha to object is if you were mocking her garb behind her back. Sorcha doesn't even have a cause for complaint if you were to ask around to find out if there were someone closer to So rcha who might be able to pass on some garb advice, without making her feel confronted or embarrassed. Nor does Sorcha have cause for complaint if you were to explain your problem, to others in hope one might have a suggestion for how best to deal with i t. Nor, in fact, does Sorcha have cause for complaint if you simply say to others "There's someone going around teaching people to put contrasting color gores into their t-tunics; I wish she'd stop doing that because it's not period."

Indeed, Sorcha mig ht want to stop and spend a moment in gratitude for the person who did thus, for by that means, she might get the knowledge in the most face-saving of ways. But if Sorcha continues to feel that other people are required to confront her every time they find fault with her work... she might succeed in convincing them. Won't that be simply delightful for Sorcha.

[cellio]

I may not like the way Sorcha's garb, but it's not important enough for me to mention it, even though I know a few historical inaccuracies she's bought into. She may take an extreme amount of pride in her garb and be upset that I knew a few ways she could make it better without telling her;

In the absence of some evidence that Sorcha wants feedback, I probably wouldn't say anything either. People tend to react badly to unsolicited negative feedback. Now, if Sorcha has made it known that she's really trying to improve this type of garment and she wants people to talk to her about problems, or if I'm a clothing laurel (wait for laughter to die down) and Sorcha is my apprentice, that's different.

People are inconsistent, and I bet that's why insight is eluding you.

True. And you can't necessarily use "what X does" as a guide for "how X wants to be treated".

[alienor.livejournal.com]

In the absence of some evidence that Sorcha wants feedback,

There are people who would say that by wearing garb out in public, Sorcha wants feedback. Sounds pretty strange to say it that way, but I've heard it before.

And you can't necessarily use "what X does" as a guide for "how X wants to be treated".

Unfortunately, yes.

[siderea]

And there are people who really would say, that by wearing certian garb Sorcha was saying that she wanted to be raped. I don't believe that, either.

Perhaps we should rely on words when trying to establish how someone wants us to treat with them, instead of making sartorial surmises.