car shopping, part 2 (and a question)
Feb. 18th, 2004 10:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cellioI'll get the question out of the way first for people who don't otherwise care: how much should I care about all-wheel drive? (Note: not four- wheel drive.)
On to tonight's shopping.
Waaaahhhh! I want Honda's user interface in almost anybody else's body. Sigh.
I drove a Honda Civic (sedan). The controls are all within easy reach, the dashboard is easy to read, things make sense, and there are plenty of nooks and crannies to stuff odd junk in. The seat is fully adjustable, and it was not hard for me to find a combination of seat position and steering-wheel position that made me comfortable and gave me full visibility to the dash.
Unfortunately, it's a sedan. Honda does not make any hatchbacks. (I thought they had something that was kind-of sort-of hatchbacky, but I was wrong.) Now as sedans go it's pretty roomy for cargo (much better than Dani's Saturn!), so that alone isn't necessarily a show-stopper. I would have to do more wiggling than I'm used to to put my hammer dulcimer in, but it would be doable. I could probably fit all the Pennsic stuff in.
But there's the visibility problem. With the back seats up it's poor due to the rear headrests; with the back seats down (and frankly, my car can live in that state most of the time) it's a lot better. It's not great, though, and I think I would want to do a daylight highway-driving test to see if it's acceptable. I'm not sure it gives me what I need for passing at highway speeds.
They did not have a Civic hybrid for me to drive tonight, but the sales person told me that the battery takes a sizable chunk out of the trunk space and he thinks I don't want it. It's the same car other than its hybridness, so if the Civic were otherwise a winner I'd go back to see for myself, or ask Tofi to show me his. I'm pretty conflicted about the Civic right now.
I also looked at the Ford Focus. I was prepared to not like this car, after some of the comments I received about it yesterday/today, but I actually found it comfortable (for the most part), and the drive seemed fine to me. It doesn't have the polish of the Civic, and I couldn't find seat/wheel positions that didn't impede line of sight to some important parts of the dashboard. And the speedometer is harder to read than anything else I've driven, though I guess you get used to needle position and don't read the numbers anyway. (That's pretty much what I do in my current car, though I can make out the numbers.) The interior space is not so well laid-out in the passenger area; I didn't see obvious places to put sunglasses, toll money, and the accumulation of receipts that comes from any trip. The cargo space is pretty good, though, and the visibility is good. (Not as good as my current car, but nothing is so far. I'll have to cope.) The sales person mentioned that they have some 2003 models left over and there's a $3500 rebate for buying one of those, which is worth noting. (He says it's the same car; I'd like to find a way to verify that.)
I asked about the Focus' history of recalls and repair problems, and he claimed that they completely redesigned the car after that and it's not currently a problem. Of course, who'd know? It's soon to tell. And the massive warranty can be read two ways -- "we're that confident", or "you're going to need this".
My next shopping opportunity will be next Tuesday. I want to check out the Golf and go back to Toyota to see an Echo; the relevant dealers are a few blocks apart. (There wasn't time last night to hit VW, unfortunately.)
I've eliminated the Mazda 3 at this point; all else is still in play.
On to tonight's shopping.
Waaaahhhh! I want Honda's user interface in almost anybody else's body. Sigh.
I drove a Honda Civic (sedan). The controls are all within easy reach, the dashboard is easy to read, things make sense, and there are plenty of nooks and crannies to stuff odd junk in. The seat is fully adjustable, and it was not hard for me to find a combination of seat position and steering-wheel position that made me comfortable and gave me full visibility to the dash.
Unfortunately, it's a sedan. Honda does not make any hatchbacks. (I thought they had something that was kind-of sort-of hatchbacky, but I was wrong.) Now as sedans go it's pretty roomy for cargo (much better than Dani's Saturn!), so that alone isn't necessarily a show-stopper. I would have to do more wiggling than I'm used to to put my hammer dulcimer in, but it would be doable. I could probably fit all the Pennsic stuff in.
But there's the visibility problem. With the back seats up it's poor due to the rear headrests; with the back seats down (and frankly, my car can live in that state most of the time) it's a lot better. It's not great, though, and I think I would want to do a daylight highway-driving test to see if it's acceptable. I'm not sure it gives me what I need for passing at highway speeds.
They did not have a Civic hybrid for me to drive tonight, but the sales person told me that the battery takes a sizable chunk out of the trunk space and he thinks I don't want it. It's the same car other than its hybridness, so if the Civic were otherwise a winner I'd go back to see for myself, or ask Tofi to show me his. I'm pretty conflicted about the Civic right now.
I also looked at the Ford Focus. I was prepared to not like this car, after some of the comments I received about it yesterday/today, but I actually found it comfortable (for the most part), and the drive seemed fine to me. It doesn't have the polish of the Civic, and I couldn't find seat/wheel positions that didn't impede line of sight to some important parts of the dashboard. And the speedometer is harder to read than anything else I've driven, though I guess you get used to needle position and don't read the numbers anyway. (That's pretty much what I do in my current car, though I can make out the numbers.) The interior space is not so well laid-out in the passenger area; I didn't see obvious places to put sunglasses, toll money, and the accumulation of receipts that comes from any trip. The cargo space is pretty good, though, and the visibility is good. (Not as good as my current car, but nothing is so far. I'll have to cope.) The sales person mentioned that they have some 2003 models left over and there's a $3500 rebate for buying one of those, which is worth noting. (He says it's the same car; I'd like to find a way to verify that.)
I asked about the Focus' history of recalls and repair problems, and he claimed that they completely redesigned the car after that and it's not currently a problem. Of course, who'd know? It's soon to tell. And the massive warranty can be read two ways -- "we're that confident", or "you're going to need this".
My next shopping opportunity will be next Tuesday. I want to check out the Golf and go back to Toyota to see an Echo; the relevant dealers are a few blocks apart. (There wasn't time last night to hit VW, unfortunately.)
I've eliminated the Mazda 3 at this point; all else is still in play.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-18 08:06 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 07:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-18 08:08 pm (UTC)In Pittsburgh's combination of winter weather and hills, AWD certainly isn't a bad idea.
Hatchbacks and AWD
Date: 2004-02-18 08:14 pm (UTC)http://www.hondacars.com/images/banners/2004/civic_si/civic_si_factsheet.pdf
Check with your dealership if you revisit the Matrix question. One reason I ended up with All Wheel Drive was that it was the only package that included Anti-Lock Brakes, which were important to me. That the Matrix should agilely come up our snowy hill in winter is a plus, but the AWD handling on dry pavement took a little adjusting on my part - it's just a teeny bit different from the front-wheel Geo: a little more active.
Re: Hatchbacks and AWD
Date: 2004-02-19 07:40 am (UTC)Matrix: thanks. I do want anti-lock brakes, so if I get a Matrix it looks like I'll be getting AWD as a side-effect. I'd rather not pay the cost (both up front and in gas) if AWD isn't useful, though. It would be different if it were something I could turn on and off as needed, like four-wheel drive in some cars.
I'm definitely going back to the Toyota dealer next week, though -- I want to see an Echo, and the Matrix is still a strong candidate.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-18 09:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-18 09:41 pm (UTC)The trunk issue was the big reason I went for a regular Civic instead of a hybrid. In the model year that I was looking at, the battery was between the seats and the truck so the back seats couldn't fold down. Since I only have the one car, it's just impractical to have a car where the seats don't fold down. I heard that at least one manufacturer fixed that in this year's model by putting the batteries over the rear wheels but I can't remember if that manufacturer was Honda or Toyota.
Re:
Date: 2004-02-18 09:55 pm (UTC)In the Saturn's defense, it had a bit more power available when going up Negley than my Civic does and almost the same gas mileage. Saturns also have a feature that I haven't seen on any other car. If you have the air conditioner on and you get into a situation where the engine needs more power (like going up Negley), the Saturns will automagically switch off the compressor to give the engine an extra boost when you need it and switch it back on when normal driving conditions resume. That just makes so much sense to me. I don't know why other manufacturers don't do that on their smaller cars.
Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 06:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-19 06:44 am (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 07:47 am (UTC)The trunk issue was the big reason I went for a regular Civic instead of a hybrid. In the model year that I was looking at, the battery was between the seats and the truck so the back seats couldn't fold down.
This is still true -- I forgot to mention that the dealer told me the back seat wouldn't fold down. That's a deal killer for me just as it was for you. Yes, Dani and I have two cars, but they're not interchangable; I've driven his once, I think, when he wasn't also in the car, and the situation would have to be quite grave before I'd let him attempt to drive my brand-new manual transmission. :-) (And his car is pretty poor for cargo anyway, so I really do need to know that I can go to, say, a music convention for a weekend in my own car.)
I believe the Prius fixed the battery-placement problem this year. I didn't actually see the Prius' cargo area; by then I knew that I wouldn't be able to get one.
Which Civic do you have -- a sedan or a coupe? If it's a sedan, could I come sit in it in daylight some time to better assess the visibility question? It's hard to judge that at night, especially when the test drive is on roads that are not heavily trafficked. (I don't even know where we were, really; I didn't know Monroeville had such obscure stretches. There was no one else on those roads at 8:00 last night.)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-19 07:59 am (UTC)It makes sense that the Prius would be the one where they fixed the battery placement problem because they are the ones that did the big redesign for this year.
Mazda Protege5?
Date: 2004-02-19 05:56 am (UTC)Re: Mazda Protege5?
Date: 2004-02-19 07:55 am (UTC)And bring your dulcimer when making your final decision
Absolutely. And the actual dulcimer, not just its case like I did last time. Fit is important, but I also need to know that I can maneuver it into wherever it has to go, and an empty case just isn't the same at all. (That's something that concerns me a bit with sedans -- the Civic has plenty of space in which to fit the dulcimer, but can I get it into place without tearing up the fabric on the back of the folded-down seats? I'll have to try it to know.)
In my current car, I can stand the dulcimer up (so long as there's other stuff to pack in around it), thus allowing me to have one back-seat passenger. This option doesn't exist in a sedan, so if I have the dulcimer it looks like I have one passenger max. Now granted, I try to con other members of my music group into doing the driving to conventions, but until now I've at least been able to supply a car that could hold three people. I'll have to decide if that's important to me; it might not be now that everyone else has real cars too. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-19 08:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-02-19 09:09 am (UTC)Zaphod (my fiance) has a Ford Focus. The ignition switch went after 70,000km and he only bought it at 65,000km. Apparently this is a common problem but is not considered to be recallable. He had another problem with is as well, but I can't remember what right now.
Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 10:21 am (UTC)Ooh, that raises another question for me. How much of what breaks down on cars (and specifically, the cars I'm considering buying) fails due to age, and how much fails due to mileage? I won't see 70,000km for close to 10 years, but if that really failed because the car was (say) two years old, that's different. I wonder how one figures out stuff like that...
Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 05:55 pm (UTC)Zaphod's car really should not have had that problem at 70,000km. It was very distressing, especially when we searched the net and found it was very common in the USA. We didn't find many stories of it happening in Canada, but that's not suprising. I think his car is 3 years old (2001).
Confessions of a Car Salesman
Date: 2004-02-19 11:29 pm (UTC)