car shopping, part 2 (and a question)

[cellio]

I'll get the question out of the way first for people who don't otherwise care: how much should I care about all-wheel drive? (Note: not four- wheel drive.)

On to tonight's shopping.

Waaaahhhh! I want Honda's user interface in almost anybody else's body. Sigh.

I drove a Honda Civic (sedan). The controls are all within easy reach, the dashboard is easy to read, things make sense, and there are plenty of nooks and crannies to stuff odd junk in. The seat is fully adjustable, and it was not hard for me to find a combination of seat position and steering-wheel position that made me comfortable and gave me full visibility to the dash.

Unfortunately, it's a sedan. Honda does not make any hatchbacks. (I thought they had something that was kind-of sort-of hatchbacky, but I was wrong.) Now as sedans go it's pretty roomy for cargo (much better than Dani's Saturn!), so that alone isn't necessarily a show-stopper. I would have to do more wiggling than I'm used to to put my hammer dulcimer in, but it would be doable. I could probably fit all the Pennsic stuff in.

But there's the visibility problem. With the back seats up it's poor due to the rear headrests; with the back seats down (and frankly, my car can live in that state most of the time) it's a lot better. It's not great, though, and I think I would want to do a daylight highway-driving test to see if it's acceptable. I'm not sure it gives me what I need for passing at highway speeds.

They did not have a Civic hybrid for me to drive tonight, but the sales person told me that the battery takes a sizable chunk out of the trunk space and he thinks I don't want it. It's the same car other than its hybridness, so if the Civic were otherwise a winner I'd go back to see for myself, or ask Tofi to show me his. I'm pretty conflicted about the Civic right now.

I also looked at the Ford Focus. I was prepared to not like this car, after some of the comments I received about it yesterday/today, but I actually found it comfortable (for the most part), and the drive seemed fine to me. It doesn't have the polish of the Civic, and I couldn't find seat/wheel positions that didn't impede line of sight to some important parts of the dashboard. And the speedometer is harder to read than anything else I've driven, though I guess you get used to needle position and don't read the numbers anyway. (That's pretty much what I do in my current car, though I can make out the numbers.) The interior space is not so well laid-out in the passenger area; I didn't see obvious places to put sunglasses, toll money, and the accumulation of receipts that comes from any trip. The cargo space is pretty good, though, and the visibility is good. (Not as good as my current car, but nothing is so far. I'll have to cope.) The sales person mentioned that they have some 2003 models left over and there's a $3500 rebate for buying one of those, which is worth noting. (He says it's the same car; I'd like to find a way to verify that.)

I asked about the Focus' history of recalls and repair problems, and he claimed that they completely redesigned the car after that and it's not currently a problem. Of course, who'd know? It's soon to tell. And the massive warranty can be read two ways -- "we're that confident", or "you're going to need this".

My next shopping opportunity will be next Tuesday. I want to check out the Golf and go back to Toyota to see an Echo; the relevant dealers are a few blocks apart. (There wasn't time last night to hit VW, unfortunately.)

I've eliminated the Mazda 3 at this point; all else is still in play.

Comments

[anukul.livejournal.com]

Technically, I believe Honda still offers a hatchback: the Si (http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+Si), no? You might not expect it, but it is actually a high end performance oriented Civic that costs more than most of the Sedans. I'm not sure about availability though.

[geekosaur]

I find all-wheel drive a slightly mixed blessing. It's really nice when some of your wheels have better traction than others; on the other hand it's really unnerving in some situations, because if one wheel loses traction completely (say, when taking the 110° turn on Milroy Rd.) it goes ZWRRRRRRRRRRR!!! (low torque, high speed) until it touches the road again. (That isn't very good for the drive, either.)

In Pittsburgh's combination of winter weather and hills, AWD certainly isn't a bad idea.

Hatchbacks and AWD

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Honda makes a Civic Hatchback, the Civic Si, but it's a 3-door not a 5-door, so may be too small. It was too small for me to consider.
http://www.hondacars.com/images/banners/2004/civic_si/civic_si_factsheet.pdf

Check with your dealership if you revisit the Matrix question. One reason I ended up with All Wheel Drive was that it was the only package that included Anti-Lock Brakes, which were important to me. That the Matrix should agilely come up our snowy hill in winter is a plus, but the AWD handling on dry pavement took a little adjusting on my part - it's just a teeny bit different from the front-wheel Geo: a little more active.

[queenmabwords.livejournal.com]

I had all wheel drive in my last car. I loved it! My Dad did too, and bought the car off of me when we bought the new car. I miss the all-wheel drive, and I didn't notice it gobbling up gas.

[mrpeck.livejournal.com]

When I was looking a while ago, Consumer Reports seemed to really like the Focus (and in fact I think it was their second highest scoring car ever or something) but they couldn't recommend it because of its repair record. I can believe that they redesigned the car but I'd be cautious in trusting whether or not that redesign introduced different problems.

The trunk issue was the big reason I went for a regular Civic instead of a hybrid. In the model year that I was looking at, the battery was between the seats and the truck so the back seats couldn't fold down. Since I only have the one car, it's just impractical to have a car where the seats don't fold down. I heard that at least one manufacturer fixed that in this year's model by putting the batteries over the rear wheels but I can't remember if that manufacturer was Honda or Toyota.

Mazda Protege5?

[jerusha.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine has a Mazda Protege5, and seems to really like it. I've driven it once, on a long road trip, but that was long enough ago that I can't speak to many of your visibility requirements (Chicago to Atlanta for GaFilk 2002). It's a nicely-sized "baby station wagon": 4 doors plus tailgate. The owner, janmagic, was a hatchback driver before this car and seems to be happy with the transition. She can get a folded massage table into the rear compartment without folding the seats down, so I woudn't be surprised to hear that you could fit your hammer dulcimer in. (And bring your dulcimer when making your final decision - when we bought our most recent car, we brought our largest guitar case!) With one back seat folded down (split rear seat, 60/40), we were able to take three adults, one snake (who travels in a 5 gallon cooler), two guitars, and all of our associated stuff down to Atlanta in reasonable comfort. I didn't have any complaint about visibility, but my car-of-choice is the Taurus/Sable wagon (which sounds much larger than what you're wanting, with corresponding hit to fuel efficiency, so I didn't recommend it). The car did come in manual transmission (which was an adventure for me!); the packages that Jan had included ABS, dual airbags, and I think traction control, although I'm not sure about that. If I were looking for a small station wagon, it'd be high on my list. (My size criterion for cargo space is ability to hold multiple cased guitars, with room for other stuff (like bags of songbooks and filk paraphenalia like music stands) and without folding the seats down. From that perspective, the Taurus/Sable is just right for me, and the Protoge5 too small, but I'm looking to transport a minimum of two, and up to four, filkers with all their filk gear.)

[ealdthryth.livejournal.com]

We have an all wheel drive Subarua Forester and really like it. Living in the South, we haven't had much need for it, but I have been very happy to have it the few times I have needed it.

[meadhbh-9.livejournal.com]

I have a '95 Honda Civic hatchback which is surprisingly roomy. I've actually moved myself to and from school in it on one trip on several occasions (futon and all). I love my Civic! I had a 4X4 Dakota for a while which I loved, but I've sold that and gone back to my trusty Civic with the gas prices being what they are.

Zaphod (my fiance) has a Ford Focus. The ignition switch went after 70,000km and he only bought it at 65,000km. Apparently this is a common problem but is not considered to be recallable. He had another problem with is as well, but I can't remember what right now.

Confessions of a Car Salesman

[schulman.livejournal.com]

If you've got an hour or two to kill, read through the Edmunds.com article Confessions of a Car Salesman (http://edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html), in which an undercover journalist worked as a car salesman for a few months. Nothing in it will particularly surprise you, but it'll put you in the right frame of mind for dealing with the dealer paperwork and mindgames. (If they leave you sitting alone in a little room for half an hour, walk out -- they'll come running.)