cellio | interviewed by cecerose

1. One of your major "gripes" about your fellow Jews in the Reform movement is that how unsupportive (and at times hostile) they are of those within the movement who choose to be more religiously observant. Why do you think that is?

Some people identify culturally, but not religiously, as Jews; they want to be able to say "I'm a Jew" but without the burden of mitzvot or believing in God or the like. Some of them gravitate to Reform congregations -- for things like school for their kids, not because they want to attend services. They know that non-observance is accepted by the Reform movement, so they don't think they have to worry about people questioning them on kashrut issues at potlucks or tsk-tsking them for going to a movie on Saturday afternoon or whatever. They see Reform as "freedom from religion".

Now add people who do take religion a little more seriously but believe that traditional observance is "outdated". They will have a lot in common, on an outward basis, with the secular Jews above.

Now along comes someone who appears to be more traditional. For the secular Jew this is inconvenient, but for the modernist this is a threat. I have heard lots of people in this group complain that we're becoming "too Orthodox" if we do more prayers in Hebrew or ask people to not bring meat/milk mixtures to potlucks. For them, the Orthodox are the enemy, and they do not distinguish practice from theology. (Most have probably not even spent a lot of time thinking about the question.) To them, traditional observance is sort of like someone deliberately returning to pre-modern values like subjugation of women. It doesn't matter if that isn't true; it's a visceral reaction. Or so it appears to me, anyway. The people I've talked to seem completely unable to comprehend that someone might willingly choose to keep kosher or walk to shul or the like.

2. Both the reform and the reconstructionist movements hold that religious observance of halacha is nonbinding and voluntary -- what I find troubling is that lay reform and reconstructionist Jews often don't have enough of background to make meaningful choices. Do you see this as a problem?

Yes, it's a problem. I think it's something that's getting better; with the current swing toward tradition comes increased education, including for adults. But it's a challenge, and in practice only a very small number of Jews will put in the effort to approach this intelligently.

It's not a huge problem, though, because I think most of the rest wouldn't have "done religion" anyway, so this approach doesn't lure people away from practice. I think those who want to practice will practice, and ask questions as needed, and those who don't want to will avail themselves of the "I don't have to" excuse.

I'd actually be happier if my movement were, say, a fifth its current size but with five times as many people taking these questions seriously. Any outcome is fine but I'd love it if more people would make the effort and could articulate their positions.

3. How did you get involved in gaming? What do you enjoy most about it? (I've tried, Lord knows, I've tried and my character is currently riding around in someone's sack.)

I assume from your parenthetical comment that you'e mostly talking about role-playing games. I started playing D&D -- badly -- with a group of friends. We were all social-outcast geeks anyway and this sounded cool to several of us, so why not? We bumbled along but never really connected with experienced players. I hooked up with other players in college and played in some games then. I also got into the SCA in college, and found that there was high overlap among SCA people, D&D players, and my circle of geeky friends.

At this point, gaming is something I do with friends because it's an activity we all enjoy. I haven't sought out strangers to play with since college, and I've never played at conventions or competitions. I think I see it as primarily a social activity, so I naturally want to do it with people I like to socialize with.

As for what I enjoy about gaming itself, I think it's the chance to experiment with a character who isn't me in a world that isn't mine. Even if my characters often bear a striking resemblence to me, I can at least try. It's a creative outlet, but in a shared environment so I get help from other people.

4. Describe your favorite childhood comfort food.

Hmm, that's tough. There were several. Grilled-cheese sandwiches (unadultrated with other ingredients such as tomatoes) and cream-of-tomato soup often filled this role. So did baked ham-and-cheese sandwiches -- take a bun, load it up with thinly-sliced ham, american cheese, mustard, relish, and onions, wrap it all in foil, and stick it in the oven until gooey. No, I don't know where that came from. (Obviously, I haven't had this in rather a while...)

And then, of course, there was chocolate. I had a pretty serious sweet tooth. :-)

5. If you were given a year long all expense scholarship for Jewish study, where would you go?

Assuming I could qualify for admission (a pretty big assumption, but so's the funding :-) ), the Jerusalem campus of Hebrew Union College (the Reform seminary). Part of this is a cop-out, though; no Orthodox institution would take a woman interested in the rabbinate, which rules out most formal learning programs, and I don't think I'd gain much from the material that is traditionally taught to Orthodox women. So that means that if it's a formal program it's connected with one of the other movements, and of those Reform speaks most clearly to me.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I still remember the former Rabbi here getting up during services and patting himself on the back (at about age 60) from giving up eating traife and encouraging others to do likewise.

That's not a bad thing. It's never too late to do a mitzvah, and he should be applauded for not thinking, "eh, why start now?"

When questioned, she *insists* that she and my dad are Jews.

A person can't be "more" or "less" Jewish. If they are Jews, they are Jews, regardless of their level of practice. Ideally, they would be observant also, but secular Jews are just as Jewish as you or I.

A person can't be "more" or "less" Jewish. If they are Jews, they are Jews, regardless of their level of practice. Ideally, they would be observant also, but secular Jews are just as Jewish as you or I.
===
All depends on who you ask.....I've come to the same conclusion you have (basically) but the Conservative and Orthodox *definitely* do not agree with this position.
My problem is situational: I've been taking care of the 'rents for 2 and a half years and all during that while my younger chilkdren are exposed to their ways, my ways, and the ways of their Jewish school.....It confuses my son to see grandma wolfing down shrimp, and practically waving it under his nose, b/c at age 4 telling him that "we" don't eat that doesn't explain why grandma does. Isn't she part of "we?" She did the same thing with my oldest one and bacon.........

I think this is the difference between a halachic and a cultural definition. Halachically, anyone born to a Jewish mother (or who converts) is a Jew, and you can't undo that. Even if you convert to some other religion, you don't stop being a Jew -- you're just an apostate.

Culturally, of course, there are lots of cases where people will say "oh he's not really a Jew -- he eats pork". It's not limited to Jews, of course; "he's not a real X" is heard with varying values for X. Remember "real men don't eat quiche"? No one who said that was questioning that non-female quiche-eaters lacked certain biological properties. I think it's the same when you hear someone say that so-and-so (born from a Jewish mother) isn't "really" Jewish. (And Judaism is both a religion and a people, which is sometimes confusing.)

"oh he's not really a Jew -- he eats pork".

Wow. I've seriously never heard someone say that. Jokingly or otherwise.

Interesting. I've heard this from a couple far-right Jews, who were disparing those less observant, and I've heard it, oddly, from secular Jews, who I guess are embarrassed by their Jewishness or something and want to point out that the friend/family member/whatever is really just like all other Americans. Some in the latter category say such things about themselves, too. (I don't want to speak lashon hara here, but let's just say I married into some of this -- fortunately, not immediate relatives.)

All depends on who you ask.....I've come to the same conclusion you have (basically) but the Conservative and Orthodox *definitely* do not agree with this position.

I am Orthodox. I would say 90% of my congregation would agree that you are either Jewish or you're not. The Chabad Rabbi that I am good friends with and his wife *definitely* agree that you're either Jewish or you're not and that if you have a Jewish mother, you *are* Jewish, period. Again, in an ideal world, you'll also be observant, but that doesn't make you "more" Jewish.

And yes, I absolutely understand the dilemma of, for example, having your mother eat shrimp in front of your children. That is always a difficult position to be in.

I am Orthodox. I would say 90% of my congregation would agree that you are either Jewish or you're not.

Just out of curiosity (and not meaning to start anything...I could ask you this in person, it's just this is more convenient right now), would those same 90% only recognize Orthodox conversions? I mean, I know the Rabbi told me that my conversion, since it was Conservative, would not be recognized by Orthodox Rabbis (nor would my children be recognized as Jewish). I pretty much took this to include most members of Orthodox congregations as well. But I suppose, as with most things, you can't exactly generalize it.

It's something I don't specifically discuss with Orthodox congregants. I do know some Orthodox Jews who have a "don't-ask-don't-tell" policy, some who just don't care what kind of conversion, and some who accept any conversion with a mikveh. But yes, I would say that the vast majority of Orthodox Jews that I know that contemplate the question only recognize Orthodox conversions. This is not a reflection on the individual, but rather on the differences in theology.

I am neither endorsing nor disagreeing with this policy. I hope that I don't get flamed for this, but if I do, so be it.

interviewed by cecerose

Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...

Re: Forgive me for butting in here...