morning minyan

[cellio]

I've done better torah readings, but this morning went ok. I was tripped up when I mis-remembered trope for one word, which had a cascading effect on the next few words. So I had to be prompted, but I got through it. Initially (a few years ago) I learned this portion by rote; now that I know how to read trope I did it "right" this time, uncovering some errors in my initial learning of it in the process. So I guess it's not surprising that something like this happened. I still got lots of apparently-genuine compliments.

There was a fascinating (to me) discussion at breakfast. There is a light breakfast after services every morning -- usually just bagels and bread, cream cheese, and drinks, unless someone sponsors a fancier breakfast. The process of getting the bread/bagels has been a pain for various reasons, and today someone (a regular, not a visitor) proposed a change: getting bagels from a new bakery that is better in quality, cheaper, more conveniently located -- and not under rabbinic supervision. This last point had not even occurred to the person bringing up the subject as something important; when others pointed it out he went on an anti-kashrut rant. ("What could be treif about a bagel?" "Well, this place sells sandwiches, right? So maybe they sliced your bagel with the same knife they just used to slice the ham?" "You're being too picky." And so on.)

Other people pressed that line of argument with him, but I brought up a more fundamental issue. This is a Conservative congregation. That means they, as a congregation, are bound to a certain interpretation of halacha. It doesn't matter if every member of the minyan eats treif at home; the congregational meal must be in accordance with that halacha, both for appearance and to support the needs of any visitor who actually keeps kosher. (I think, but am not sure, that failing to keep a kosher shul kitchen is one of the issues (along with performing an intermarriage, and I'm not sure what else) that can get a Conservative rabbi censured.) So if that halacha says a bakery must be under supervision, you have to follow that. Bottom line: you have to ask the rabbi and follow his ruling.

The person I was arguing with seemed to be of the belief that "kashrut is silly, so we don't need to worry about it". He failed to see the difference between decisions about personal practice and decisions about communal practice. At one point he brought up other Conservative deviations from the Orthodox interpretation of halacha, like allowing women to lead services, but I pointed out that this isn't the same thing at all: the Conservative movement has a process, which they followed, to determine that women can lead services. They didn't just get up one day and say "we don't like that restriction, so we're not doing it". That same process produces an understanding of kashrut, which must be followed in the shul.

The rabbi was not present, by the way. (I would of course have deferred to him if he were.) I didn't mean to be "speaker for the rabbi", and I said a few times that he needs to consult the rabbi about the kashrut rules for the shul. But when exactly did I, a Reform Jew, become a spokesman for Conservative Judaism in a Conservative shul? *boggle*

(I should clarify that I am not trying to malign or question this community as a whole. I assume that most people present agreed with me but just weren't putting it into words.)

Comments

[dmnsqrl.livejournal.com]

He failed to see the difference between decisions about personal practice and decisions about communal practice.


This is setting off my "hmmm... that would be a very interesting subject for discussion, polling how people feel about this difference and seeing what comes from that" systems.... I'm too sleepy to formulate at the moment but I will probably steal this over to my page and see if I can talk a couple of ant's nests into roiling over it (or at least milling nearbye a bit... )

Just remember that many breads use some form of shortening

[zachkessin.livejournal.com]

And in some cases its lard. Although unless you were in an Italian or other "ethnic" place I don't think its much of a worry.


Note icon of me doing Hagba at the Kotel.

[cecerose.livejournal.com]

Other people pressed that line of argument with him, but I brought up a more fundamental issue. This is a Conservative congregation. That means they, as a congregation, are bound to a certain interpretation of halacha.

I agree, especially with the difference between the private and communal issue. I'm likely to join a Conservative shul this fall, so while I'm not likely to be fully observant in terms of kashrut at home, I'd follow the communal standard at the shul.

[sanpaku.livejournal.com]

We have the same issues, ad nauseum. I will say that there are very, very few issues that get a Conservative rabbi kicked out of the RA, and kashrut issues aren't part of that.

Sad to say the baked goods issue is very difficult here. The kosher bakery in RI went out of business last year and "the pastry issue" has become evergreen. There is a local bakery that is not supervised but is Jewish owned and the large Conservative shul (which everyone follows) gets their shabbat pastry from. So we do too. Myself and one other member of the shul are the only ones perturbed by this, but in many circumstances my ability to combat things like this is limited to being able to do something about it myself, and I don't have time to drive to Massachusetts each week to get pareve pastry.

For everything else we have a kosher caterer. At least we no longer have Bingo, when non-Jews brought in all kinds of treif into the building.

Having said that, bagels shouldn't be much of an issue -- just get them from a kosher bakery (isn't Giant Iggle in Squirrel Hill certified?) or just get Lender's. I wish we only had a bagel issue.

This is one of those things I hope will be attacked effectively once we have a rabbi. Your questioner is certainly expressing a common opinion among nominally Conservative Jews, but the rabbi should be able to squelch that.

[goljerp]

But when exactly did I, a Reform Jew, become a spokesman for Conservative Judaism in a Conservative shul? *boggle*

:-)

I think that it's quite reasonable for a shul to have a kashrut policy about the stuff that's at the shul. Especially for a Conservative Shul. Of course, you get into problems like "do we accept un-hekshered cheese in the shul" (since there is an opinion in the C movement that it's OK).

While Reform congregations don't have the exact same issues, I'd expect that many places would be less than thrilled if someone who was having a kiddush for the community had shrimp and ham as part of the spread at the Shul. Or am I wrong about that?