Harry Potter
Jun. 15th, 2004 09:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cellioWe went to see the Harry Potter movie Monday night. Before that, though... this had to have been the most unappealing set of previews I've seen in a while:
- Spongebob Squarepants: Um, I think they might not quite have this movie's demographic nailed.
- Spiderman 2: Eh. Didn't see #1 and won't see this, but they're closer to the demographic.
- Sleep Over: Eww. Just... eww. Inane gigly teenage girls sneak around their parents and have cat-fights. Um, yeah. Maybe Spongebob wasn't so bad after all.
- Catwoman: If, like me, you have not read the comics (I assume there are comics), you get no information about this movie beyond "babe in black doing acrobatics". Maybe that's enough for their target demographic. (Oh, and I gather the cat-woman died and was recycled or something?)
- Cinderella Story: Cinderella set in modern-day LA. Looks cute, but if the glass slipper has really been replaced by a cell phone, I would think that identification would be anti-climactic. ("Each of you, quick: what's your phone number? Ok, let's ask the phone.")
- Princess Diaries 2: This looks like it could be fun. Or rather, it slightly motivates me to find #1 (this is a sequel). Dani has good things to day about the book.
- Polar Express: Eww eww eww. Even if I did Christmas, and even if I had kids, I still wouldn't take them to see this bit of insipid Santa-is-love fluff.
Context: I have not read any of the books.
This was a pretty good adventure story about generic characters. I didn't really see a strong effect from this being specifically the Harry Potter universe. There seemed to be less character advancement and less advancement of the overall story than in the first two movies. I don't think we learned anything new about the lead characters, nor did they learn anything new about themselves. And Draco, formerly a snide force for evil, was instead a snivelling force for bully-dom in this one.
I'm not saying the actors didn't do a good job with their characters or that there weren't fun moments -- just that it didn't seem to move the way the first two did. I enjoyed seeing more of Hagrid, I thought the replacement Dumbledore was credible (but lower-key), and Snape was his usual creepy self. (I don't like the divination professor, but maybe I'm not supposed to.) I liked Lupin, though the homosexual-teacher allegory at the end was rather blunt. And I thought Sirius was done well and had some depth; I hope we'll see more of him.
That map was cute. Dani tells me that according to the book Harry's father created it; that would have been a nice detail to include.
There were some very nice effects (I liked the hippogriff in particular) and too much scenery that could have been better allocated to character time. The plot was tidy, tying up loose ends and holding together well.
One plot thing did surprise me, though: the movie makes clear, through the passage of seasons, that this Sirius Black scare lasts at least six months. If we hadn't gotten the weather scenes, it would have seemed like a few days. I did not see the rising urgency you would expect from "oh no, that murderer has been stalking us for months!". What was up with that? Did it come through more in the book?
And a nit: if time-travel is so dangerous, why the heck is the faculty letting Hermione use it to shave a semester or two off her studies?
Assessment: Much better than #2, not a rich as #1. I'll go to the next one.
We made extremely good time getting to the theatre, but were still surprised to be the first ones at this particular show. That's not really a win, though; it just meant we got to watch more commercials. Remember when you could spend pre-movie time just talking, with quiet music in the background?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 06:51 am (UTC)I think we have some similar opinions. About two weeks ago, my family and I saw Shrek2 and HP3 on the same day. You can find my review of the full set of previews in the blog entry (http://www.livejournal.com/users/cahwyguy/8985.html) that I wrote.
In short, the intersection of our set of previews was four (Spongebob, Cinderella, Catwoman, and Polar Express), and we thought all were "eh" (except that my 9yo daughter was a little interested in Cinderella).
As for HP3: there apparently was a lot left out from the original book. The book for HP4 is even longer, so expect even more cutting as they decided not to do it as two movies.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 06:59 am (UTC)Yes, it did. A lot. There were a number of details like that that were in the book, and didn't make the cut to the movie. I understand why, but it seemed much less nuanced that I was surprised at some of the things that did make the cut.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:01 am (UTC)In regards to Catwoman -- can I just say how BAD this movie looks to someone who actually reads the Catwoman comic book and has liked the character since she was seven? Just...ew. The only thing the movie has in common with the comic book is the title.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:11 am (UTC)Hoping to see HP3 this weekend.
I definately agree with you on the commercials. And I'm one of those people who likes to show up insanely early so I can get a good seat, so I end up having to sit through all of them. *grump*
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:17 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:18 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:19 am (UTC)Catwoman: oh, ok. I hadn't considered the (in-retrospect) way-too-likely possibility that it has little to do with its source material.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:24 am (UTC)I haven't read the books and am not part of HP fandom; is this interpretation completely off-base or something?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:26 am (UTC)I like to get good seats, but usually, after the initial wave and especially on a Monday night, 5-10 minutes early should do that just fine. We ended up being 15 minutes early, and as I suspected, those who came in 5 minutes early got fine seats.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:28 am (UTC)Yeah, but I'm insanely picky. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:36 am (UTC)I enjoyed HP, but it seemed like it took place on a completely different planet from the first two.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 07:48 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 08:04 am (UTC)As far as the characters go, they were pretty true, except for a bit of Lupin and definitely Malfoy. I didn't like how he was made into a snivelling little cry baby, it seemed fairly pointless.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 08:08 am (UTC)But as
A related aspect I don't feel they've done as much with as they did in the books, which increasingly becomes significant, is the impact of politics in the greater Wizardling world. Lupin was not the first case - and will certainly not be the last - where Dumbledore has to deal with "the owls flooding in from concerned parents" - Malfoy likes to play that game, and is very good at it.
The next two movies will be key; this is the last one (IMHO) where Harry's conflicts are removed enough from the larger sociopolitical gameboard that we can get away without showing more of it in the film, without departing pretty drastically from the books.
Re: Polar Express
Date: 2004-06-15 08:20 am (UTC)It is a favorite children's book of mine, so I will have to see what the reviews say when it comes out.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 08:25 am (UTC)Oh yeah -- I meant to comment on that. That Malfoy's snit is able to turn into a death sentence for the hippogriff without Hagrid seeming to get to even present his side of the argument shows that the system is somewhat broken. I wanted to see more about what was going on there; the death sentence seemed to come out of left field, with inadequate explanation from Dumbledore.
Re: Polar Express
Date: 2004-06-15 08:27 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 08:44 am (UTC)Re: Catwoman
Date: 2004-06-15 08:57 am (UTC)The comic was truly fun for a long while. (I cut back on comics, when they cut back on my work hours and hence paycheck.) Catwoman is literally a "cat-burglar". She's the world's greatest thief. At one point, her mundane identity, Selena Kyle, was running for mayor, while her Catwoman persona was wanted for an un-successful assassination attempt on Selena. The dual-identity problems were wonderfully highlighted. "But Selena, all the evidence points to Catwoman, how can you be so sure it wasn't her???"
Re: Catwoman
Date: 2004-06-15 09:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 09:34 am (UTC)Re: Catwoman
Date: 2004-06-15 09:55 am (UTC)No, wait, I'm picturing something like a conference where the film's creators are talking to some studio person, giving the pitch.
Scene: producer's office, Hollywood. THE PRODUCER is behind a big desk, with lots of pictures of the stars, successful movies, etc., behind him. In front of him, on two folding chairs, are CREATOR 1 and CREATOR 2.
CREATOR 1: ... and, of course, we'd have Halle Berry play Catwoman, who has a secret identity of Selina Kyle.
PRODUCER: Halle Berry? Hmm, she's hot, and Michelle Pfeiffer is just so over-40, nobody'd want to see her play Catwoman. But, wait, Selina Kyle? PRODUCER: [SLOWLY, PENSIVELY] Selina Kyle.
PRODUCER: [DECISIVELY] No, I just don't see Halle playing a Selina. Perhaps a, um, Patience. Patience Phillips. That's her name.
CREATOR 2 [ASIDE] WHAT??
CREATOR 1 [ASIDE] Come on, what's a name? We still get the movie!
CREATOR 1 [TO PRODUCER] Right, secret identity of Patience Phillips...
PRODUCER: And we can get Halle to wear a really hot, skin-tight suit, right? Like Rebecca Romijn-Stamos in X2? [NOTE: Link is to, well, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos in a skin-tight costume from the X-men sequel that leaves very little to the imagination]
[CREATOR 2 moans softly, putting his head in his hands, while CREATOR 1 nods brightly.]
Princess Diaries
Date: 2004-06-15 10:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 10:31 am (UTC)Over the next couple of books, he starts interacting much more closely with those Bad People, and scenes like this start to make a lot more sense. Among other things, it gradually becomes clear that, in at least some arenas, Lucius Malfoy is significantly more powerful than Dumbledore. Perhaps even more relevant, the two hate each other with a deep and abiding passion. In the later context, the death sentence for the hippogriff probably has at least as much to do with embarrassing Hogwart's as with Draco's snit...
As
Which isn't to dismiss your complaint -- some things do appear under-motivated from the POV of this episode. The problem, though, is that this really is structured as an epic, and a lot of stuff really is just there to be setup and foreshadowing.
(BTW, I really do commend the books. With the possible exception of Book 4, I've thought they were all quite good...)
My two cents
Date: 2004-06-15 10:32 am (UTC)I was repulsed by the "Polar Express" trailer, too. Didn't know it was a children's book.
If you were to read any of the Harry Potter novels, this book is the best one. The movie hangs together, but the book has reams more characterization and meaning. Would you listen to it as an audio book?
The movie screamed to me of a young director trying to put 'his mark' on the movie. There was a significant amount of noise to story-signal. I agree with you that the characters didn't develop much. I was far more taken by the aging shown by the actors and how *that* developed their characters. For example, Neville is growing up in a way that portends well for his actions in the 5th book. His looks complement his growth from a whining putz into a determined but not yet competent wizard.
I agree with Chris's comments about Lupin and the 'homosexual allegory' - maybe the movie alluded to fanfiction, but the book was specifically referring to prejudice against any creature but a pure-blood wizard. Keeping in mind that Voldemort's original victims were mixed-blood wizards and muggles, the entire Harry Potter reality is based on racial prejudice and the impact it makes on peoples' lives.
It wasn't a bad movie, though I don't recommend anyone go to the IMAX version. It just wasn't anywhere near as good as it could have been.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 10:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 11:18 am (UTC)(I don't like the divination professor, but maybe I'm not supposed to.)
You're not. In the book, it's quite clear that Professor Trelawney is an annoying fraud (or at least, near-fraud), and our heroes don't much care for her. But she'll become more relevant later. Indeed, much of what happens in this episode will be fleshed out more as the story progresses.
Dani tells me that according to the book Harry's father created it; that would have been a nice detail to include.
Well, I appreciate their need to trim things as much as possible to keep the story flowing. But actually, the Map is more symbolically significant than that: the four "Marauders" named on the Map are the nicknames for Harry's father, Lupin, Sirius, and Peter Pettigrue -- that's why Lupin knows exactly what it is immediately. The Map underscores Peter's betrayal.
Also clearer in the book is the relevance of animal magic. In the movie we see that Lupin is a werewolf, and Peter and Sirius are both animagi (rat and dog respectively). What the movie doesn't say is that Harry's father was *also* an animagus -- specifically, a stag. That's the significance of the shining stag seen briefly when Harry finally casts the big Patronus spell...
if time-travel is so dangerous, why the heck is the faculty letting Hermione use it to shave a semester or two off her studies?
Actually, I'm not sure anyone but Dumbledore knows about it. And he has a tendency to let the kids learn their own lessons, even when those lessons are dangerous.
(And it isn't that she's shaving time off her studies -- it's simply that she can't stand the concept of not learning *everything*, and is refusing to specialize the way everyone is supposed to. It's much clearer in the book that she's basically working herself into a coma by overuse of the time travel device...)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 11:33 am (UTC)An interview in Entertainment Weekly mentioned that Cuaron deliberately chose to leave that for the next movie under the assumption that it would fit better there. I think it would have added to the richness of this movie to leave in the relationship between the 4 marauders. BTW, the same interview says Cuaron claims credit for convincing whomever to keep Goblet of Fire to 1 movie.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 11:45 am (UTC)Aha. I initially parsed that blob of glowing light as ghostly hippogriff, then said "no that's not right", and then it was gone. I didn't see the antlers that presumably would have clued me in.
Actually, I'm not sure anyone but Dumbledore knows about it. And he has a tendency to let the kids learn their own lessons, even when those lessons are dangerous.
And even when those lessons endanger the entire school, as in the first two movies where Dumbledore (and the others) could have stepped in rather than letting the kids solve the problems. I hope this is eventually addressed -- that ought to result in a lot more owls to Dumbledore from parents than the small matter of a lycanthropic teacher!
it's simply that she can't stand the concept of not learning *everything*
Oh, ok. I can relate to that. :-)
Re: My two cents
Date: 2004-06-15 11:53 am (UTC)Probably not. The advantage of an audiobook is in parallel processing, but the chunk size for my commute would be too small. If I'm going to carve out a chunk of time to absorb it, it'll be a smaller chunk if I read than if I listen. So absent a really kick-ass narrator, I'd rather read the book.
(Off hand, the only case I can think of where I preferred a spoken version to the book was with Richard Harris' rendition of Jonathan Livingstone Seagull, lo these many years ago.)
For some reason, by the way, this is a quirk of longer pieces. I enjoy (good) storytellers as much as or more than written short stories. But for longer works, I prefer to absorb visually. Or maybe there just has to be an additional hook; how that I think about it, I've often really enjoyed listening to musicals on tape even if I've never seen the show. Hmm.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 01:09 pm (UTC)As for the Time Turner, that was McGonogle's loan to Hermione. I figured she saw as student who actually wanted to learn (for once) and wasn't afraid of extra work to do it, and - combined with the fact that she will bend the rules for her House, as seen when she recruited Harry for the Quidditch team - was weak. Dumbledore just knows about it because nothing slips past him. Except for escaped murderers, and Dementors who've slipped their leash, and unregistered animagus rats, and giant demon snakes...
Re: McGonogal
Date: 2004-06-15 01:37 pm (UTC)RE: Harry's appointment to the Quiddich team: The rule was that 1st years couldn't own their own brooms, and it was only after Harry made the team that an exception was made. Was that McGonogal's doing or would any 1st year on the Quiddich team be allowed a broom? Hmmm...
Re: Audio book
Date: 2004-06-15 01:39 pm (UTC)Re: McGonogal
Date: 2004-06-15 02:07 pm (UTC)As for the Quidditch team, that was more a matter of a situation where Harry (by all rights) should have been in trouble, but where McGonogal surprised him by dragging him in and announcing that "we've found our new seeker", having recognized talent in his horsing around.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 02:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 08:33 pm (UTC)And I'd forgotten where the Time Turner came from. Interesting, but I suppose in keeping...
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 08:39 pm (UTC)By contrast, I thought that Order of the Phoenix, despite being even longer, was absolutely ripping: tightly plotted and carefully structured, with everything paying off wonderfully. That's why I'm not grousing about her taking her time on Book 6: the evidence says that, when she takes the time to polish, she produces better work...
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-15 11:32 pm (UTC)The theme of prejudices and bigotry becomes a big one, with many examples as the series progresses. Harry's getting slowly radicalized by his experiences.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-06-16 09:20 am (UTC)Actually, it's interesting watching this process, because it's neither simple nor consistent. For example, Hermione spends much of Book 4 annoyed at Harry (and pretty much everyone else) because they don't understand why *she* feels so radically about certain prejudices. If Lupin is the AIDS metaphor, Hermione is the black metaphor, and she's very sensitive to the issue.
Fascinating. I hadn't consciously twigged to it before this conversation, but prejudice does appear to be the single most-explored theme in this series. Anti-werewolf prejudice is the most minor of three major examples I can think of offhand...
Re: My two cents
Date: 2004-06-16 09:25 am (UTC)I do actually do much of this very small-grained: my commute to work is about five minutes, so I do a lot of small chunks. That works for me, but YMMV...