Shabbat (mostly)
Oct. 23rd, 2004 10:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cellioThe morning torah-study group reached the part in Numbers where God gives prophecy to the seventy elders so Moshe won't have to do everything himself (this is near the end of chapter 11). The text tells us that in addition to the seventy, there were two men -- Eldad and Medad -- who also got in on this, though they didn't join the others at the tent of meeting. Joshua hears about this and gets upset, apparently because they're encroaching on Moshe's territory or something. But since prophecy is clearly something that is done at God's instigation -- or, at the very least, with God's cooperation -- how could that be? I don't see anything in the text to imply that Eldad and Medad did anything; it's not like they were stow-aways or something. My read is that they were in the camp going about their business and -- blam -- they were prophesying. We didn't get to most of the commentaries today, so we'll return to this next week.
This probably means we`'re going to also talk about the people gorging on heaven-sent quail next week, because that's next in the text. My rabbi pointed out the coincidental timing with Halloween. :-)
Someone said that the Christian denomination whose members sometimes "speak in tongues" are basing that on this. Apparently (and I welcome correction here!), the idea is that when God talks to you it transcends language, and you say things that sound like coherent text to you but gibberish to everyone else. I'd heard of speaking in tongues before, of course, but didn't know it was tied to the idea of prophecy. (I wasn't sure what it was.) I always thought the point of prophecy was to convey God's words to everyone else (the prophet is just a vehicle), which would require doing so in a language your listeners understand. If this description of speaking in tongues is correct, that seems to be something that's about the speaker personally (and God), not about a message to the community.
Tonight after Shabbat we went to Hunan Kitchen, the successor (or reincarnation, or something) of Zen Garden in Squirrel Hill. It's no longer a purely vegetarian restaurant, but there are still plenty of vegetarian dishes on the menu. The meal was good except for the sizzling-beef incident. Someone at another table ordered something that comes sizzling in a skillet; apparently something went wrong and the dish emitted a great deal of smoke only after it got to the table. Everyone in the place was coughing. It was actually kind of funny, as the cough migrated outward from ground zero. (We weren't affected for the first minute or so, but then we were a little.) I didn't notice what happened to the dish in all this.
Speaking in Tongues
Date: 2004-10-23 08:25 pm (UTC)When I belonged to a Baptist Church where the members spoke in tongues, briefly, when I was a teenager, it worked exactly as described above. According to our minister, sometimes the one who was touched by the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues was speaking as they spoke after the destruction of the Tower of Babel, Gen 11:9 KJV Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. (Kinda reminds me now of John Dee and his "angelic" language that uses only the characters in the English/Middle English language.)
According to the minister and deacons, some of those languages have disappeared from the earth, and so the person who was "speaking" was speaking in a language none of us would understand. Interstingly, always, always someone in the congregation was also called by the Holy Spirit to interpret for the one who was prophesying in tongues. (Kinda reminds me now of John Dee and his "angelic" language that uses only the characters in the English/Middle English language.)
And, they could always tell you when someone was going to call on God to speak in tongues, and put it in the program the week before.
The whole thing was too much for my mom, so after a year or so we went to one of the "mainstream" concgregations. I was glad we didn't move to a congregation of either snake handlers or foot-washers. We had both in the area.
Now, at the one Maranatha revival meeting where everyone was touched by "the holy madness of God," and everyone rolled on the floor and gabbled in tongues, and I felt nothing, [Cue "I Felt Nothing" from A Chorus Line]I propped myself in the corner and gabbled with my eyes closed in the rythmn of sentences. I don't know if everyone else was also feeling the way I was, but it was the reason I left the movement.
Sorry this may be a little snarky. This is one of the reasons I am no longer a Christian....
Re: Speaking in Tongues
Date: 2004-10-23 08:26 pm (UTC)Re: Speaking in Tongues
Date: 2004-10-24 12:14 pm (UTC)Re: Speaking in Tongues
Date: 2004-10-24 03:15 pm (UTC)I think my exploration through denominations (and finally settling on Thelema) have a great deal to do with my need for ritual and my need for Gnosticism and self-affirmation; I was happy with the tiny Episcopalian church (about 30 people) because the rituals were so intimate. However, eventually (post first marriage and 7 years of non-church attendance), I went looking for something with both ritual and being touched immediately by the godhead. Speaking in tongues wasn't it.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-23 08:25 pm (UTC)In the writings by Paul, when he talks about speaking in tongues, he does understand it as prophecy-- but also insists that if there's no one present with the gift of interpreting, those gifted with tongues should not speak. Funny how that part gets ignored today! (1 Corinthians 14, if you want to follow up.)
The history of the Pentecostal movement, the Christian movement most into speaking in tongues, is absolutely fascinating. Some of the first to receive the 'gift' were utterly convinced that God had given them an actual language-- Chinese-- so that they could go into the mission field without a language barrier. To give them credit, once they arrived in China and discovered they couldn't speak Chinese, they settled down to learn it the old-fashioned way!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-24 11:47 am (UTC)Ah, so it's a two-part message -- speaker and interpreter both required. Interesting. Thanks!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-23 11:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-24 11:52 am (UTC)But that location is definitely a revolving door for restaurants -- Hunan Garden is the fourth I've seen in that spot, three of which sprang up since we bought our house here five years ago. (At least I think Zeb's replaced Sweet Basil after we got here; I'm not certain of that.)
Dani and I were speculating about this last night. It would be easy to blame it on high rents on that street -- it's customary for businesses to get deep discounts for the first year or two -- except that other restaurants on the street seem to have longer staying power -- even bad ones like How Lee a couple doors up. My working hypothesis is that the building is cursed. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-24 04:41 am (UTC)The drash that I've heard about this is that Eldad and Medad were supposed to be part of the 70 elders, but that both were extremely modest. So when Eldad heard his name called out, he thought they meant Medad, and vice-versa.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-24 12:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-24 03:02 pm (UTC)Re: Glossolalia
Date: 2004-10-24 10:13 am (UTC)Ï
Re: Glossolalia
Date: 2004-10-24 11:54 am (UTC)