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Monica ([personal profile] cellio) wrote2004-11-29 11:26 pm
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Christmas and Chanukah

Two takes on multiculturalism and December holidays, both written by liberal Jews, with rather different stances: one from JBCs (Jews by Choice) and one from the Velveteen Rabbi. I myself tend more toward the former; when we try to combine holidays with the goal of better interfaith relations, I think we weaken both. Christmas is the second most important day on the Christian calendar; it should be important and solemn for those who believe, and not be treated as somehow equivalent to a minor Jewish holiday commemorating, of all things, a victory over assimilation. (Think about that irony for a minute.) If I find myself in the midst of Christian affirmation, which to me includes everything from a mass down to singing Handel's Messiah, they should do their thing and I should withdraw [1]. We shouldn't have to compromise on "Frosty the Snowman" or a theme of light in the darkest days of winter.

Cross-religion education is a good thing, and I think most people would welcome serious inquiries from people of different faiths if they want to know more (or even attend services or other rituals). I've certainly participated on both sides of that and seen no problems. But I think we should remember that our religions are separate; they have different emphases and that's ok. We don't have to agree, and we don't have to try to build a lowest common denominator.

To my Christian friends, I wish you the best in your season of holiness now under way, as I know you wish similar things for me during the high holy days and at other times. I'm not offended by your observance of your religion; you don't need to water it down. Besides, the dreidel song is really insipid; please don't feel obligated on my account.

(Mind, I would have a different reaction to celebrations in a setting that's supposed to be neutral, like a public school or a place of (secular) employment. But that's not what I'm talking about here.)

[1] Some do not see a problem with things like singing Messiah. We all draw the "worship" line in different places.

[identity profile] profane-stencil.livejournal.com 2004-11-30 05:06 am (UTC)(link)
I almost responded "Amen" to this, but thought better of it... I am neither Jewish nor Christian, but it saddens me to see either religion (or any religion) watered down for the sake of not giving offense.
The urge to strip away all differences and claim that "we are all the same under the skin, we worship the same god," strikes me as immature and shallow.
You and I are very different, and that's not only okay, that's the way it should be. I don't want to live in a Star Trek world where everyone weighs the same and talks the same (and gives lip service to the value of cultural differences, while denying its reality).

[identity profile] ealdthryth.livejournal.com 2004-11-30 05:58 am (UTC)(link)
We were having a discussion today at work about holiday decorations. We aren't allowed to have any Christmas decorations. I think that's a good thing seeing as we are a taxpayer funded institution. At least one of my coworkers is irked that we can't have Christmas decorations, claiming that most of the country is Christian and this is a Christian holiday. I can sort of see her point, but I think it is misplaced in a library. We can do a lot with seasonal decorations for winter without addressing any religious holiday.
siderea: (Default)

[personal profile] siderea 2004-11-30 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
You might be amused by this story.

My father's second wife is Roman Catholic. I was with them and her three teenagers one Christmas eve when I was a young teen. Her mother lived near-by, so every year she would drive her mother to Midnight Mass. I don't think it has ever been clarified to my step-grandmother that I'm not a practicing Jew.

On this occasion, my step-mother went to each of her three kids (all older than me) and asked in turn, "Would you like to with Nana and me to Midnight Mass". In turn each demurred (I think in favor of watching some athletic event on TV). And then, I suppose because I was hanging around and she didn't want to be rude, she turned to me and said very diffidently, "Er, I don't suppose you'd like to go to Midnight Mass?"

I looked at my three step-siblings glued to the tube, contemplated my incipient night of utter boredom for about half a second, and replied, "Sure, I'd love to."

Boy, was my step-grandmother surprised to see which kid my step-mother managed to bring along. But pleased, of course. Hope springs eternal in the Christian breast. :)

So we went to Midnight Mass, which was an educational experience for me. It was not lost on my step-grandmother that I already knew all the words to all the songs that the congregation sung.

On the ride home, my step-grandmother, feeling, I suppose, encouraged to a sort of expansive ecumenicalism by my good-natured sufferance, ventured in a sage voice, "You know, someday, we'll all worship the same god."

"Really?" I chirped innocently. "Which one?"

My step-mother almost swerved off the road, laughing.

Holiday greetings

[identity profile] miz-hatbox.livejournal.com 2004-11-30 10:09 am (UTC)(link)
So... when someone wishes you a merry Christmas, what do you do?

Once upon a time I took offense and said, "actually, I'm Jewish," leaving the other person feeling all embarrassed. Then I realized that that was silly; the other person wanted me to enjoy their holiday, and what was wrong with that? So I tried to respond in kind and say, "Thank you, and I hope you have a very happy Chanukah too." and this led to their having the "um, I'm not Jewish" reaction" that left me abashedly mumbling, "So? Have a nice one anyway." Kind of like all the times I tried to wish everyone a happy new year in September. :-)

It's sort of like the dilemma I have about presents. If I were to give you a Chanukah present, it would be mutually understood. If a Christian gives another Christian a Christmas present, again, the mutual understanding is there.

But if I give a present at Chanukah to a Christian friend, is it best to call it a Chanukah present (specifically highlighting giving and not receiving as the tradition) or a Christmas present (honoring the predilection of the recipient?) Calling it a winter-holiday present feels sorta... null.

[identity profile] nsingman.livejournal.com 2004-11-30 01:47 pm (UTC)(link)
While I understand the reason for elevating Chanukah in importance (it's proximity to Christmas, a major Christian holiday), I've always found it to be a foolish thing to do. One might argue that, for observant Jews, any given Sabbath is more important than Chanukah (and some other holidays, besides). Plus, the history of the holiday always made it very unpleasant for me to think about. Not unexpectedly, perhaps; libertarians tend not to cheer theocratic victories. :-)
siderea: (Default)

[personal profile] siderea 2004-11-30 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Besides, the dreidel song is really insipid; please don't feel obligated on my account.

Which reminds me: have you run across "Here in my House", a multi-culti Channuka/Christmas song which, IMHO, doesn't suck?

OK, I'm going to be completely different

[identity profile] eclectic-1.livejournal.com 2004-12-01 12:20 am (UTC)(link)
I can not agree that "no Christmas decorations" is the way to go. I would rather include all faiths than none. Why should someone be offended by seeing a display of a different religion? A caveat that the display has to be respectful.

Hold onto your hats, but I learned Christmas songs in Public School! Not only that, I learned the Menorah song at the same time! Oh my gosh! (I have curtailed saying "Oh my God" due to a very religiously strict person at work, but it seemed like a such little sacrifice to make someone happy.) And you know, if I had learned a little more a little earlier maybe that whole "asking for pepperoni on your pizza bagel at the Jewish deli" could have been avoided.

I'm just thinking that maybe we need to share our celebrations more, throughout the year. Maybe that would even lead to more understanding of each other and peace and harmony and good things.

Adam Sandler's Chanukah songs do make up for the dreidel song.

If you get a chance, listen to Dar William's "The Christians and the Pagans". It chokes me up just to think about the song.

I had recently created a song list on my iPod with all my spiritual music. I am greatly amused that I have representation of at least five different religions. But I must confess to having very little Jewish religious music. Any suggestions? (Boy, I came to the right place for that didn't I, Monica?)

One thing I must ask, why so many different spellings of Chanukah?!?

[identity profile] eclectic-1.livejournal.com 2004-12-01 03:10 am (UTC)(link)
I knew that I was asking the right person!

I will be sure to check these out.

Thanks!

(Anonymous) 2004-12-06 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for linking to my recent blog post, even though you draw your line (on things like singing Messiah, e.g.) in a different place than I do.

I agree with you that combining holidays can water them down in a way that's fair to neither holiday. Then again, many interfaith families opt to celebrate the holidays of both partners, and that makes sense to me in a way that Jewish-families-with-Christmas-trees don't...

Anyway, thanks for the signal-boost!

-- Rachel (Velveteen Rabbi)