cellio | public fasts, liturgy, and obligations

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public fasts, liturgy, and obligations

Someone called a meeting for next Thursday morning. Initially I thought "hmm, I could get here in time for that if I skip the minyan's breakfast after services". Then I looked more closely at the calendar and realized that, it being the day before Purim, it's a public fast day -- so no breakfast after services. Ok, one problem solved.

Another problem created: I need to make sure I'm familiar enough with the insertions into the liturgy for public fast days to be able to lead them next week. Either that or get David to lead that part. (I know we insert Avinu Malkeinu after the Amidah; I can't remember if there are other changes. Fortunately, I own a copy of the siddur we use, so there shouldn't be any surprises.)

I happened to glance at next month on the calendar and noticed that the fast of the first-born (before Pesach) also falls on a Thursday, my day to lead services. This one poses more uncertainty -- it's a public fast day but only for some people. Breakfast will be held, taking advantage of a rather dubious rules hack, but I don't know what liturgical changes are implied for a day on which some people must fast and others not. Fortunately, I have a month to find out. :-)

But the fifth of these minor fasts is the fast of the first-born on the day before Pesach (or earlier if that would cause it to interfere with Shabbat, like this year). This fast exists because of the tenth plague, the one that killed the first-born malees. Jewish first-born were spared but this is later given as a reason that first-born men belong to the temple for service to God. (There is a redmption mechanism, called pidyan ha-ben -- which is good because otherwise those people would be stuck today.) And of all the minor fasts, this one resonates for me. Isn't that odd? I'm a first-born woman whose ancestors were never endangered by this plague, though obviously had I been there I would have been.

I'm a woman, so traditional Judaism would say I'm not obligated. But a consequence of being egalitarian is that I don't get out of it that easily; if I believe men are obligated, then I am obligated too.

I don't know if we are obligated, but I should give this one more thought. I've tended to non-observance in the past, or going along with that rules hack I mentioned, but I'm beginning to think that the correct thing for me is to (1) keep the fast and (2) not use the rules hack. I've got a month to figure that out, too.

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*shrug*

The seudat mitzva never really struck me as too dubious.

I wouldn't use it for something like the 10th of Tevet or anything, but the fast for the first born? *shrug*

Yeah, and I think your reaction is probably the typical one. The fast of the first-born is "lesser" because it doesn't even apply to everyone. So I'm a little puzzled by the reaction I'm having.

Two things make the seudat mitzvah seem strange to me, one general and one specific to this congregation:

1. I understand why it's appropriate to break a fast to have a festive meal. What I don't understand is why that then lets you off the hook for the rest of the day, instead of just for the duration of that meal.

2. This congregation doesn't do regular talmud study, but for the day of the fast of the first-born they assemble a few bits from the final section of some tractate and study that just so we can then have breakfast. I'm not convinced that you get credit for "completing" study under those circumstances.

The study being "completed" is somewhat nominal, yes, but that's the nature of the "rules hack."

There's probably not much point to continuing a fast that's already been broken, but I would point out that your chametz is gone by 10 and then you can only eat pesahdik food until Seder time anyway, so it might be someone would not be eating much that day anyway.

Actually, I think of people generally not eating much that day more to general rushing about and focus on the evening, rather than a lack of foods to eat; there are plenty of things that are not chametz and not matza-including.

Suggestions? We always have a heck of a time with that. Other than fruit and potatoes...

Fruit and potatoes, of course, but also consider eggs, veggies, cheese, and yogurt. Seems like there's plenty to nibble on, and as a bonus most of it doesn't require cooking. (I tend to keep hard-boiled eggs around.)

In addition to Cellio's suggestions, tuna or egg salad or eggplant spreads rolled up in large lettuce leaves, scrambled eggs with veggies, carrots/celery/mini tomatoes with eggplant dip (or any other; I just tend towards the eggplant ones for Pesach), celery sticks filled with almond butter and raisins, trail mix with fruit nuts and chocolate, hamburgers.

(I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but.)

There's probably not much point to continuing a fast that's already been broken

Isn't this the same reasoning that would lead one to say "well, I'm not going to fully keep Shabbat so I may as well not try at all"? But what we really say is "do what you can; maybe later you'll do better".

I actually don't have a strong opinion on this; I'm just trying to understand why you don't resume a broken fast, even if the fast started just before dawn and you broke it at dawn, so there's plenty of time yet to go.

As I understand it, the "rules hack" is necessary because on the one hand, you're not supposed to fast during the month of Nissan, and on the other hand, a bunch of first-born Jews got it into their head that they ought to fast to show how they were not worthy to be saved from the tenth plague.

The rabbis threw up their hands and said, OK, this is the kind of fast that gets cancelled for a siyyum, so let's make sure there's a siyyum on that day, and all the first-borns can attend the siyyum and get the credit for the fast without actually fasting during Nissan.

I can't answer (1) above, but as for (2), yeah, I think that's cheating.

you're not supposed to fast during the month of Nissan

You're not? I didn't know that. Why is Nissan special in this way? (I could maybe understand Adar, but Nissan?)

The Mishkan (and maybe the Temple as well, I forget) was dedicate during Nissan. Between that and Passover, the rabbis just decided to write off the whole month.

Remember that you only do the liturgy for a fast day (including Torah reading) if at least 6 people will be fasting in the minyan. Depending on where you are, at most Conservative shuls, there's an excellent chance that there won't be. I asked for our "joint minyans" and not even the rabbi or the cantor of the other congregation will be fasting. So it is really just a normal service. You neeed to ask the rabbi what their practice is.

If you have to make these kinds of decisions for a Conservative congregation, you really must get ahold of the Luach, which is very detailed about this kind of issue.

I usually don't fast either -- it has been years since I tried. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but there are folks who feel that since the establishment of the State of Israel, these minor fasts have lost whatever meaning they once had. Of course in the orthodox world they take place in a whole panoply of voluntary minor fasts (like for Behab) and need to be understood in that context. But I suspect very few people in any Conservative congregation will be fasting.

As far as the "rules hack," to my mind it's not that different from living in an eruv or any other type of pious fiction that the tradition has created. It gives a reason for attending a siyyum, to boot. So it's no more dubious than anything else. I think the fast of the first-born is easier for people to relate to because it's personally addressed, unlike these other minor fasts, which are kind of abstract to the point of meaninglessness. (Gedaliah is the one that I've never understood at all.)

Also, it might be a mistake to say that being egalitarian means that obligations are as equivalent for women as for men. To my mind, it should mean is that women who want to take on the obligation may do so, not that it's compulsory. Otherwise there'd be real problems with women wearing tfillin and so forth. But then if you're coming at this from a Reform perspective, none of it is "binding" unless you find it personally meaningful, so I'm not sure why you would mention obligation for the fast.

Remember that you only do the liturgy for a fast day (including Torah reading) if at least 6 people will be fasting in the minyan.

Ah, good point.

If you have to make these kinds of decisions for a Conservative congregation

That expectation is kind of new to me, but one I should have seen coming. I mean, it's just not practical for David to feed me decisions while he's sitting in the congregation, so I need to either know or anticipate and ask.

you really must get ahold of the Luach, which is very detailed about this kind of issue.

I'm actually on a mailing list that pops out the weekly luach, but (1) it's not reliable (sometimes skips weeks) and (2) sometimes it'd be nicer to know earlier than Sunday. Is this a book? A type of book? Some other source of info? If I walk into the local Judiaca shop and say "luach", will I get handed the right thing? (Are there additional parameters I need to specify? Weird things happened when I bought my first siddur thinking they were all basically the same.)

I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but there are folks who feel that since the establishment of the State of Israel, these minor fasts have lost whatever meaning they once had.

I've heard that argument specifically for the temple-related fasts, including Tisha b'Av.

Behab?

On the "rules hack", see my comment to

arib. But you're right that there are other rules hacks and it's good for people to attend a siyyum. (I guess I'd like that siyyum to be more real if you're going to use it that way, though.)

Very good point about the fast of the first-born being addressed personally instead of nationally. That's probably a lot of what's doing it for me.

But then if you're coming at this from a Reform perspective, none of it is "binding" unless you find it personally meaningful, so I'm not sure why you would mention obligation for the fast.

There are things I feel obligated in that don't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy. I'm not picking the things I want to do; in some cases I have come to understand that I must do (or not do) certain things. It's in that sense that I was using the word "obligation" -- not to imply that everyone has one, but to imply that individuals do, that being what Reform is about. And within that, egalitarianism means that gender does not enter the discussion; I shouldn't be saying "well, if I were male God would clearly be commanding me to do X but I'm female so I'm off the hook". And yes, the Reform approach to mitzvot opens huge honking cans of worms any time you try to discuss it, and I am not claiming to be right, to be consistent, or to be done evaluating. :-)

Yeah, if you ask for any "luach" you're likely to get something entirely in Hebrew. What you want is the United Synagogue luach edited by Kenneth Goldrich. Get it through the United Synagogue: www.uscj.org/booksvc (though they might have it at that place in Squirrel Hill). I keep it very close at hand, as you can tell!

Behab is this custom of fasting on Monday, Thursday, and the following Monday at some point in the year -- can't remember when. Sefirah, maybe? It's in ArtScroll, in the back, along with all the other weird stuff.

Thanks for the luach pointer.

Behab: ok, I've seen those days marked on a calendar; I just couldn't remember a name. There are two instances of this, one after Sukkot and the other, I think, somewhere during Sefirah.

Yes, you're right.

Forgot to mention something. About asking the rabbi for rulings -- the rabbi almost never comes and is leaving the congregation in a few months. (I wonder how long they will be without one.) There's a rabbi emeritus, who was the (non-emeritus) rabbi when I began going there, but he also rarely comes. This is a sore spot with the leaders of the minyan, actually; they're talking about writing "must attend minyan" into the next rabbi's contract. My reading is that things are hostile enough now that they wouldn't ask the rabbi for a ruling if he did show up. Not pretty.

So anyway, this minyan pretty much runs itself. There are several knowledgable people there, and until I started leading I assumed that David (the regular leader) made all the decisions. That impression crumbled the first time I asked him a question and he said "you could do that", rather than giving me a definitive answer. :-) (I still don't know what's actually correct with respect to kaddish d'rabbanan in the absence of a minyan; I'd been omitting it but a couple weeks ago one of the venerated elders told me you say it after study even without a minyan and I should put it back. I couldn't find an answer in Klein, but that feels wrong. And as a sign of the times, I didn't see this come up frequently for the first several years I went there, but it's become more of a problem in the last year or so.)

Well, see if there's someone there who represents the collective memory of the minyan. Surely they have a minhag one way or the other. In absence of that, call the rabbi and ask for something authoritative. Not good to do freelance halacha, though sometimes it's unavoidable.

Kaddish d'rabbanan is like any kaddish - you need 10. What the guy told you was wrong. Period. Minhag shtut... there's just so much of it around. They're not likely to listen to you, from the sounds of it.

Voluntary minor fasts are virtually unknown in the Orthodox world, even among the black-hats. Instead of demonstrating our piety by choosing to go hungry, we demonstrate our piety by choosing chumrot like cholov yisroel.

Huh. Well, the stuff for Behab is in there. Someone must be doing it. Not necessarily in your neck of the woods.

When I was in yeshiva in Israel, one of my teachers was a very very very black-hat rabbi who lived in Kiryat Sefer. He said he didn't know of anyone who took on the voluntary fasts.

When there's a grey box in the Artscroll siddur that says "some congregations do X", "some congregations" can sometimes mean "three shteiblach in Brooklyn".

No, I know about "nusach ArtScroll," but they didn't invent Behab. I'll defer to your knowledge of the black-hat world. I only meant to say that fasting has more significance in orthodoxy, among other reasons because there's a larger ritual and theological structure it takes place within. There's no Behab in Siddur Sim Shalom. All I'm saying.

I'd have thought the distinctive thing about Purim is that it commemorates an attempt at extermination which was headed off at the last minute.

Hmm, that could be.

There are five minor fasts in the calendar. Three have to do with the destruction of the temple and one falls before Purim (commemorating Esther's call for a fast before she tried to save her people). These apply to everyone, but they don't resonate for me at all. I can't say exactly why, at least in the case of Purim. Maybe it's this nagging question of why this attempt to wipe out the Jewish people in a particular area warrants special treatment when it's not a singleton -- just the first that the rabbis noted.

Ooh, goody: a chance for me to get in a (slightly relevant) reference to Yom Nicanor!

I think one (among many) reasons for the Rabbis to set the fast of Esther on 13 Adar was to (effectively) knock Yom Nicanor off the calendar. Never heard of Yom Nicanor? It worked! Yom Nicanor was a celebration of the Hasmonean victory over the Greek[1] general Nicanor, and was a day of feasting. The Rabbis, for very understandable reasons, weren't too keen about celebrating military victories over outsiders in general, or the Hasmoneans in particular...

And calling a fast on the 13th of Adar "the fast of Esther" was really kind of disingenous, since according to the book of Esther, she was actually fasting on the 19th-22nd days of Sivan.

[1] OK, Selucid, whatever.

Never heard of Yom Nicanor? It worked!

I believe I've seen you mention it before, but I'll admit that I required the refresher to know what you were talking about. :-)

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