the walls have ears

[cellio]

Yesterday I got a statement from my credit-card company. It was a transaction summary for 2005; I've never seen this sort of thing before. The front page informed me that last year I spent $X on food, $Y on entertainment, $Z on professional services, and so on for about 15 broad categories. That's the sort of thing that could be useful if you don't think about it -- but I'm the kind of person who thinks about it.

I'm not sure which possibility is more disturbing: that they are making inferences based on who the payee is (Giant Eagle sounds like groceries, etc), or that the merchants are providing the credit-card companies with categories for the transactions.

My record-keeping is not thorough enough for me to figure out which is more likely on my own. Perhaps I will ask them.

When I use a credit card I fully expect that the particulars of the transaction -- date, amount, and merchant -- are not private and might be mined. If it's really important to me, I pay cash. But I do not expect a description, even a high-level one, of the goods or services purchased to be part of that record.

Comments

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

It is my impression that particular vendors are in particular categories.

category based on type of merchant, I think

[brokengoose.livejournal.com]

Back when I had an American Express card (5-10 years ago), they provided "category" information for each transaction, and it seemed to be location specific. If I bought some medicine from the grocery store, it was listed as "groceries". If I bought stationary and candy from the drug store, it was listed as "medicine".

I do know that some of the credit processing companies (Amex, Visa, etc.) charge different rates based on the type of business. Presumably, that data is available to the bank, as well. I'm guessing that they're using that data.

Re: category based on type of merchant, I think

[cellio]

I do know that some of the credit processing companies (Amex, Visa, etc.) charge different rates based on the type of business.

Interesting. I didn't know that. I know that the rate can depend on the amount of the transaction (both the transaction fee and the percentage can vary), but I didn't know it also depended on the type of business/purchase.

Re: category based on type of merchant, I think

[aliza250.livejournal.com]

The rate depends on *average* transaction amount; that's why many businesses don't want to permit credit cards for transactions under some fixed dollar amount. (This is against the rules of most CC contracts, though.)

Different businesses have different chargeback profiles, though, so it makes sense that they are charged different rates. (When's the last time you disputed a credit-charge card at the grocery store over quality of service?)

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

It's worse than that, and has been for a long time.

Some merchants are just assigned a category. Some have multiple categories -- the pumps at a rest stop are treated differently than the in-store purchases. Some merchants sell information including, e.g., product-by-product data to credit card companies. Some of this depends on which CC company you have, of course. I think one of my friends, an ex-employee of a cc data mining company, has more details...I'll go bug her.

The credit card companies sell this extremely valuable data to everyone, making lots of money in the process. This is one reason why our privacy is eroding; the cc companies, who are among the largest lobby in Congress, have a business model that depend on spying on you and selling the results.

Really, the main thing that's astonishing to me right now is how BAD they are at using it! I know it's hard to draw conclusions in oblique data like purchase patterns -- heck, it's what I theorize about for fun -- but it's not impossible, and they've had at least fifteen years to come up with better ways to use this data than simply sending me Ivory coupons when I buy Dove.

[patsmor.livejournal.com]

He's right about the categories; however it's also true that most of the info on what you buy gets recorded and is available for data mining against your profile. That's one reason you get individually printed ads on your magazines, etc.

If you do it with a credit card, what you got, where you got it, and what your demographics are goes into a db someplace.

I'm going to kick the soapbox under the table for a while, because I feel a rant coming on. Sorry.

[alienor.livejournal.com]

It was a transaction summary for 2005; I've never seen this sort of thing before.

My credit union has provided that sort of statement for at least the past 5 years, so however its powered its not 'new' technology.

[ralphmelton.livejournal.com]

When I got one in the late 90s, it included a list of all the transactions broken down by category, with only one category per transaction. So to generalize from that, I would suspect that they're inferring based on payee.

[mbarr.livejournal.com]

I think each credit card account is linked to a specific category. I don't think the drug store/ retail distinction is made- AMEX def. doesn't do it- they just list under general retail/merchandaise, and include grocery stores in with department stores or drug stores.

Not sure how the VISA system does it or Mastercard. It's all about the classification on the store, not the purchase. They use it to determine the rate involved to the store, and other things..

*THIS* one I don't mind them having so much. I don't think they get anything past what's reported on the statement, though, which isn't so bad.

However, Amex gets more details on plane trips and such from some vendors.. which is just a bit weird to see on my statement- it says flight to XYZ Place on it :_)


I do find these annual statements handy, for taxes. It's also really strange to see how *much* we spend!

[cellio]

If they are making inferences (sometimes correctly) based on the merchant, then they aren't collecting any new data so I guess that's not problematic. I mean, someone is spending time on such an exercise, but eh.

If, on the other hand, merchants were supplying the categories, that would bother me even though it might produce more accurate statements. I mean, right now it's pretty harmless -- groceries, travel, auto, etc -- but what if the credit-card companies started asking the merchants for more details, and my (hypothetical) "pharmacy" turns into "morning-after pill" or "food" turns into "liquor"? We worry about the information the government can require businesses to track, and try to set limits accordingly, but government doesn't control what private industry can track, and private industry can then turn around and sell that information to the government (or anyone else). Some individual merchants track purchases through store affinity cards, and I'm free to use the card or not, but the credit-card companies are aggregators.

Granted, it's been obvious for a while that if you don't want to be tracked you should use cash. (I wonder how mail-order-porn businesses survive.) I guess I'm a little more concerned with what VISA does with all of my purchasing data than I am with, say, what Giant Eagle does with my grocery data. Heck, Giant Eagle actually pays me enough for that data that I'm willing to participate.

[mbarr.livejournal.com]

No- I think it's more like all Duane Reids = Drugstore = Retail. All Texaco pumps = Gas/Auto, inside store = Retail. I think the categories aren't inferred, it's determined when you sign up as a merchant. And in some ways,

The rest of that already happens on some levels with those loyalty programs. The tag you get from Giant Eagle... that's tracking exact purchases. They probably don't do it on the pharmacy side, since that would be more problematic with HIPPA, but everything else... it's a free game.

I think this is less sinister than what they do with the loyalty card programs... There isn't that much information sent via the credit card terminals right now to VISA, so you're probably safe on that front... for now.

[cellio]

No- I think it's more like all Duane Reids = Drugstore = Retail.

Yes, it sounds like that's what they do. Specific, point-of-sale, determination is the scenario I had wondered about; it sounds like that's not happening.

The affinity cards are different because I can use them or not, without changing how I conduct the transaction. If, however, using a credit card to make the payment were to cause the same data to be tracked, regardless of my intentions, that would be annoying. A database with all of my specific purchases would probably be valuable to someone; I've decided that a database of (some of) my grocery purchases in the hands of the grocery store doesn't bother me.

[sanpaku.livejournal.com]

For Discover, the monthly statements divide up by types of establishment. But they have no way to know what you spent your money on. $25 at the gas station could be for gas or it could be for quickie groceries. I don't think there's much useful data to be mined there by a third party, except that it makes it easier for me to categorize when I'm tracking my spending.

[cellio]

I find that a transaction list generally gives me the info I need, especially if it's ordered by date instead of grouped by some other means. (Hmm, what's this mysterious $15 charge on a Sunday? Oh, that's the weekend I was at such-and-such convention; that must be the breakfast buffet!) As you said, $25 at GetGo doesn't tell me whether to file it under gas or food in Quicken anyway.

[siderea]

My cc does this, and it clearly infers from the vendor, because the categories are stunningly poor and completely useless. I think, for instance, they label everything from amazon.com as "books".

[cellio]

I didn't get anything as (possibly) useful as "books" on my list. :-)