random bits

[cellio]

I wonder how subcutaneous fluids are processed. If my cat isn't eating/drinking enough I can give him fluids, which don't enter through the mouth, but they exit the normal way -- which means somewhere inside the cat they enter the GI tract. My vet probably already thinks I'm weird, so I may as well ask her. :-) (What actually prompted this is the observation that, it appears, a dose of fluids can stimulate his appetite, almost as if the fluids were clearing out some blockage or something -- but how could they? And anyway, there shouldn't be any blockages; he had a blocked bile duct a few months ago and they both cleared it out and installed a much-larger bypass.)

We have an invitation for seder for the first night, from a fellow congregant. This is good; Dani knows the family, so he won't be among strangers, and they like to sing, and they're the sort of people who don't race through the haggadah to get to the meal. So everyone's happy -- yay! Second night is odd: as a Reform Jew I don't see the need for two-day yomim tovim, and Dani is secular, but he's used to two nights from his family (necessity of parental divorce) and I don't mind, so I may yet try to find us something. (I said "well, there's always Chabad" and he said "let me know how that goes for you", so I guess not that since the point would be to do something for him.) He's still opposed to just holding one ourselves.

My rabbi will be leading a trip to Israel at the end of this year. I'm thinking seriously of going. I'd like to see some of the place, and I'd love to do it with my rabbi -- so there'll be, y'know, some religious content, as opposed to just being a tourist. I'll have enough vacation time to do it, since most of the fall holidays have the decency to land on weekends this year, and a bonus I'll be getting at work removes any doubt about being able to afford it. It sounds like this will be a family-friendly but not family-obsessed trip; i.e., I won't feel like e fifth wheel. So I don't see a down-side here, and I think it would be an exciting experience.

Short takes:

This comic reminded me of some cats I've known...

Hold my beer, a look at washroom multitasking (not safe for work), from brokengoose.

Comments

[zachkessin.livejournal.com]

Well if you come plan on trying to meet up with all of us. We have 2 events around of the end of the year, (Shire Birthday and 8th night), so there is a decnet chance you could hit one or the other (or just join us for say crafts night)

[cellio]

That sounds like fun!

It'll probably be some months before I see an actual itinerary, so I have no idea of the number, size, and placement of blocks of free time. (I'll be with a group.) I'll let you know when I see how that shapes up.

The tour dates are Dec 22 to Jan 2. I think both Shabbatot are in Jerusalem; the rest I don't know yet. (Since Dec 22 is a Friday, I assume that means departure from here is actually on Thursday the 21st, else there's no way we'd land before Shabbat starts.)

[paquerette.livejournal.com]

Hm. Things to ponder in the wee hours of the morning. :)

You give the cat a dose of fluids and he urinates? That doesn't involve the GI tract. ;) Or are you saying that you give him a dose of fluids and his bowels start working? Raising his hydration level in his bloodstream could allow for the lower colon to draw more fluid from the bloodstream to do it's business. It could also give the upper digestive tract more fluid to work with in making various digestive juices, which might improve his appetite. Making the difference between normal body fluids and body fluids concentrate, sort of.

Unless cats are significantly different than humans, that is. Then I don't know.

[goljerp]

(un)fortunately, I've never had this issue personally. I know that the Conservative Shul I go to has a couple of "matching" programs for Seders: they'll coordinate between people who have space, and people who need space, and on their form have a way to indicate level of passover kashrut. Also, there's a community second Seder.

I just realized that this year will be the first year that I've spent Pesach in the U.S. and didn't go to the seders with my parents.

[goljerp]

whoops, still waking up, meant to quote the part about figuring out second seder.

[jhayman.livejournal.com]

A dehydrated cat is one thing, a cat with a little renal failure is another, and that's the usual reason for giving fluids.

The s.c. fluid is absorbed slowly and in the interstitial, then intravascular spaces, expanding blood volume among other things. The dilute plasma is easier for the failure kidney to process. The cat excretes the metabolites that have been building up and causing, among other things, loss of appetite an thirst. Hey, presto! The cat eats.

Failing kidneys mean toxins increase in the blood and the cat loses its appetitite (and urge to drink). Giving fluid means the cat can pee out the toxins and gets its appetite bad.

This may miss a few bits along the way, but that's essentially it. FWIW, the cat will also tend to be drowsy with renal failure -- until you give it fluids.

[spiritdancer]

What she said :-)

It also works well for dehydrated cats (or sick cats in general), as they tend to lose their appetite when they don't drink (probably as a result of metabolites/wastes that the kidneys normally excrete building up in the body. Cat's kidneys are remarkably efficient, but they still need water to work!

As an aside, the other thing I tend to give sick cats that aren't eating is a B Viitamin injection, as they require B vitamins in their diet, and they are water soluble so the amount in the body goes down pretty quickly if they are not being taken in. And the first sign of this deficiency? Lack of appetite :-/

[cellio]

That doesn't involve the GI tract. ;)

Fair enough. I did assume that all the interior food/water-processing parts are connected somehow, but there are probably other ways for fluids to get into the kidneys.

[cellio]

I just got this month's synagogue newsletter and it offers a matching service too. So I'll ask about the second night.

I just realized that this year will be the first year that I've spent Pesach in the U.S. and didn't go to the seders with my parents.

What are you doing? Going to Joy's family?

[cellio]

Thanks.

Erik has a diagnosis of cholangial hepatitis. The first sign of trouble was an X-ray some years back that showed a little calcium in his kidneys, but he doesn't have kidney problems as best I understand it. (His calcium levels have been high on every blood test since then.) In late November he got very sick and had to have surgery for what turned out to be a blocked bile duct (they thought they might have to take out the gallbladder, but didn't); while they were in there they did biopsies and both confirmed the hepatitis diagnosis (it'd been speculative before) and reported pancreatitis. He got lots of antibiotics after that, and since the hepatitis is an ongoing problem my vet has suggested just "pulsing" antibiotics every several weeks. (He also takes ursodiol.) I'm a little unclear on the status of the pancreatitis -- was that acute or is it chronic? Must ask vet.

The s.c. fluids entered the picture in mid-February when he again stopped eating. (That had been the initial problem in November.) They sent me home with a bag and told me to hit him every two days; his appetite picked up after that and they eventually had me down to once a week, then "as needed". Giving him fluids does seem to jump-start his appetite (based on limited observations). Could I be looking at the beginning of kidney problems too and that's why it works that way? (My vet once said that indicators of kidney problems don't show up in blood tests until there's something like 75% failure.)

[cellio]

Thanks. (There's more about Erik's history in a reply below.)

B vitamins: yes, my vet gave him a shot of that when he was there two weeks ago and it seemed to make a big difference pretty quickly. I wonder if that's something I can do on my own, or if I can just lace his food with B vitamins on an ongoing basis (before he loses interest, thus taking out the conventional delivery system) to keep it from getting that bad.

Hmm. Maybe they should put B vitamin in the fluid bag?

[goljerp]

What are you doing? Going to Joy's family?

Yes, indeed. I'm not sure what we'll be doing next year, though :-)

Fun with Kidneys

[brokengoose.livejournal.com]

I recently took my dog to an internist because of a heart murmur. He looked at the records and said that there was a decent chance that the kidney problems could be causing the heart problems. He dropped into medical jargon too quickly for me to follow, but I gather that kidney problems are 1) unlikely to show direct symptoms 2) hard to conclusively prove through normal tests and 3) tend to stress the rest of the system, turning minor problems (the heart murmur in my case) into major ones.

On the other hand, I'd assume that problems with almost any internal organ would stress the rest of them to some degree.

In my dog's case, it looks like the kidneys probably weren't the problem, but they do seem to be a bogey-man of sorts for veterinarians. If I followed what I was told, I can understand why: given something that causes odd problems but can't be easily tested, it'd be tempting to either ignore it or blame it for everything.

[spiritdancer]

Unless it's for use in the very short term, we don't put the B Vitamins in the fluid bags, as they are light-sensitive (IIRC, they break down with UV exposure or some such).

Some of the cat nutritional supplements have extra b vitamins added (Nutrical and the like). I did have one cat that the specialist who saw had the owner giving B vitamins at home as part of it's treatment, but that was a while back.

[cellio]

Ideally (I suppose), the bags/delivery systems would provide an interface for mix-ins -- a place between the bag and the end of the tube where you could inject drugs or vitamins in liquid form, for instance.

Remember that I'm an engineering-type, not a medical-type. :-)