random bits: SF story, gospel of Judas, family visit, Pesach, Hebrew

[cellio]

Dan Simmons recently published this story on his web site. It's part SF, part commentary on current events, part dystopia, but I enjoyed reading it. (I did see half of the ending revelation coming somewhat early; I don't know if that was intentional.)

I had not heard of the lost gospel of Judas until I saw the news stories a few days ago. I haven't seen the text itself, of course (only what's quoted in the news), but it sounds like it makes an argument that I made for years with teachers in the church I grew up in: if Jesus's execution and resurrection were required for redemption to happen, then wasn't it necessary for Judas to betray Jesus and for the Romans to kill him? Why get mad at either in that case? (It makes sense to get mad at the Romans for their cruelty, but that's different.) By the same logic, those who blame the Jews for killing Jesus miss this point. I'm pretty sure this was one of those questions that generated a note home from Sunday school.

My parents stopped by for a visit today. They brought a loaf of fresh, home-made bread. I'm so glad this visit didn't happen next weekend, during Pesach. :-) (It's a small-enough loaf that we'll finish it before Wednesday.) We haven't seen them in a little while, so it was nice to visit. They report that my neice, who is in Italy for the semester, is a little homesick, but she's also taking the time to explore the country so it doesn't sound all bad. She did ask a friend who was coming to visit to bring her some peanut butter. Who knew that you can't find peanut butter in Florence?

Pesach prep is mostly under control. I've cleared out most of the chametz that I'll be selling (except what we need for the next couple days), and tomorrow the cleaning fairy comes to scrub the kitchen, and then I can bring up the other dishes and stuff. I'm really fortunate to have a large-enough kitchen (not that it's large, but it's large enough) that I can stuff all the current dishes, pans, etc into certain cabinets and then just close them up for the week. Much easier than shlepping it all to the basement.

I have a transliterated haggadah published by Artscroll that I will never use. (I don't need the transliteration and I have other Artscroll haggadot for the core content.) If any of my friends could make use of this, let me know. It won't arrive in time for this year, but you'd have it for the future (maybe even second night this year, depending on the speed of the postal service). Note that as with all transliterations published by Artscroll, it's Ashkenazi pronunciation.

For the last several months, during torah study, my rabbi has been explaining more of the grammar in the Hebrew. (Mostly basic stuff, but more than he used to.) More recently, he's been prefixing some of these comments by addressing me. This week he asked "does anyone other than Monica know...?". We haven't actually had a Hebrew lesson together, but I guess I'm making progress that's visible to him. Nifty -- though I'm a little boggled that he might consider me the most knowledgable of the people in the group, as there are at least two who (I think) know way more than I do.

Comments

[cahwyguy.livejournal.com]

Well, hopefully, you'll enjoy what you glean from our hagaddah. It's drawn from a number of sources (as you can see); I've tried to have all sorts of options to keep parties entertained, and to understand that sometime you never get to the stuff after dinner :-).

[brokengoose.livejournal.com]

Be careful about taking peanut butter through airport security. Apparently, it has about the same density as plastic explosives (http://wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,56949,00.html).

[cellio]

I just received your email and am looking forward to reading it. I enjoy reading different takes on the haggadah; I own about a dozen different ones right now, not counting a few downloads here and there. (Have you seen the Velveteen Rabbi's?)

[cellio]

Wow. I had no idea. I guess it's a good thing her friend didn't get caught; that would probably be time-consuming and embarrassing.

[akitrom.livejournal.com]

: if Jesus's execution and resurrection were required for redemption to happen, then wasn't it necessary for Judas to betray Jesus and for the Romans to kill him? Why get mad at either in that case?

My answer: The Lord can find grace in terrible things. "The stone which the builders have rejected has become the cornerstone." The Creator can find something useful in any aspect of His Creation, because we all manifest His will in our simple act of being.

That never excuses crimes or sins. If I hate my arrogant neighbor and plan to do her ill, that's wrong; it doesn't matter whether (a) I do her grave injury, (b) I never get a chance to harm her, or (c) my attempts to harm her end up breaking her of her haughtiness and turning her towards prayer.

Was Jesus' ceath by crucifixion necessary for our salvation? I would not dare to so limit the Divine. I believe His death was used to bring about our salvation, but I wouldn't dare to say that was the only possible means. (If so, the Devil, who tempted Jesus in the wilderness, would have been better off protecting Jesus against any life-threatening injury.)

[cellio]

I believe His death was used to bring about our salvation, but I wouldn't dare to say that was the only possible means.

But didn't Jesus talk a lot, before that meal, prophetically about his fate? Or are my fuzzy memories deceiving me? I always had the impression that it was part of the plan pretty much all along.

[siderea]

I'm pretty sure this was one of those questions that generated a note home from Sunday school.

Ah, gnosticism! I don't actually know that they praised Judas for the betrayal and the Jews for killing Jesus, but they were the ones (I'm told) who argued that Eve was a hero for eating the Apple, so that the Resurrection was necessitated. q.v. "Adam Lay i-Bounden"

[cellio]

I hadn't heard the part about Eve before. Interesting.

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

I know that one of my Sunday School teachers made that point about Judas.

[dmnsqrl.livejournal.com]

when kr1mz0n_ghoti spent some time in Europe (Austria, I believe) visiting a relative in his teens, he often tells in stories that peanut butter was almost impossible to find (I believe he and his sister had an assignment at one point to make a 'native dish' and had chosen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches). On the other hand, that's when he developed his love for nutella.

I guess on the peanut butter front, some things have probably not changed.

[cellio]

I'd never heard of nutella until Dani moved into my house. (He's Canadian.)

Apparently my niece also had trouble finding tuna (I presume she meant canned) and orange cheeses. We have not yet heard the reports of all the nifty stuff she's found there but never seen here; I suspect she's not being adventurous enough.

[cellio]

What denomination, out of curiosity?

[amergina.livejournal.com]

I had not heard of the lost gospel of Judas until I saw the news stories a few days ago. I haven't seen the text itself, of course (only what's quoted in the news), but it sounds like it makes an argument that I made for years with teachers in the church I grew up in: if Jesus's execution and resurrection were required for redemption to happen, then wasn't it necessary for Judas to betray Jesus and for the Romans to kill him? Why get mad at either in that case?

Well, Judas had a choice, given free will and all. And, as they say in "The Last Crusade" he chose.... poorly.

Jesus did say that he was going to die before did, yes. If Judas had not betrayed him, I think he probably still would have been arrested and killed. As another poster said, God would have found some other way.

It's interesting to note that, at least the Catholic and Orthodox Churches believe that Mary also had free will... that is, she could have said "No" to God when the Angel came to announce that she would bear Jesus (as opposed to having no choice in bearing Jesus... being a fleshy tool, so to speak). Hence the great honor bestowed on her... she said "yes." which set the whole salvation plan into motion.

So it all boils down to free will.

As for the Gospel of Judas, there was a pretty succinct post on it at the beliefs of the Gnostic sect that used it here (http://community.livejournal.com/christianity/2272994.html).

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Episcopal; I think it was when we were in Nebraska.

[cellio]

Ah, so the court might have acted on their own if Judas hadn't helped out. I can see that.

I hadn't heard about Mary having a choice before. That does make a difference in how she's treated, yes.

Thanks for the pointer.

[cahwyguy.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't see that one.

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

One other point is that Judas didn't betray him in order to bring about salvation, which would be an act I hestitate to even speculate on the morality of. Judas betrayed Jesus for money, something that people continue to do to this day, and that continues to have the same moral quality of evil. Judas definitely did something wrong. I think what you're really arguing with is the god/force/whatever that set it up so that this was the only way for it to happen, if that's what it/he did. No?

[cellio]

I think what you're really arguing with is the god/force/whatever that set it up so that this was the only way for it to happen, if that's what it/he did. No?

Right -- if this had to happen to bring about the desired outcome, then Judas is just a puppet. If, however, there were other paths that could produce that outcome, that's different.

[astroprisoner.livejournal.com]

if Jesus' execution and resurrection were required for redemption to happen, then wasn't it necessary for Judas to betray Jesus and for the Romans to kill him? Why get mad at either in that case? (It makes sense to get mad at the Romans for their cruelty, but that's different.) By the same logic, those who blame the Jews for killing Jesus miss this point.

I agree, and I'd say more except that some previous responders have pretty much beaten me to the points I would have made.

Except for this: one thing that always puzzled me about people who blame the Jews (or anyone) for killing Jesus miss another point. It seems as though the unspoken implication is "Imagine how much better it would have been if Jesus had not died." But because His death was the entire point of having been born in the first place...basically people who seem to be following this line of thinking appear to have missed the entire core concept of Christianity.

There does seem to be rather a lot of them out there.

[cellio]

She posted about it here.

She definitely does some things that, err, I wouldn't do, but she also has a lot of interesting commentary and readings. No haggadah ever perfectly matches your preferences unless you compile it yourself (and maybe not even then), so that's not a problem.

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

if this had to happen to bring about the desired outcome, then Judas is just a puppet.

Er, that's what free will is for, as the other posters have mentioned. It doesn't actually matter if there were other paths or not.
Let's say I'm a sales clerk, and I have a desired outcome of Annoying Customer Billy going to jail for shoplifting. So, I deliberately leave various valuable-looking articles out and unattended while he's there, perhaps picking things I know that he'll find nearly irresistable, and wait. Soon, he takes the bait, grabs the golden widget, and absconds with it. I turn over the videotape to the police, and Billy gets thrown in the doghouse. Is Billy merely my puppet? Should I be the one going to jail instead of him? I wasn't forcing him to do anything, after all--most people would say that the responsibility for the offense rests on him.
Now, assume that, like whatsisname from Groundhog Day, I can live this one day over and over until I choose to leave. On each repetition of the day I tempt Billy in different ways, until I finally hit on some way that results in him shoplifting. I'm still not forcing him to do anything, it's still completely his decision to steal the widget, and yet I've now got a method which guarantees his crime, at least in a certain timeline. Is he a puppet now? I'm not entirely sure, but because there's an unforced decision of his involved, I'm leaning toward "no".

While I'm not suggesting that God does these sorts of trial runs, omniscience and timelessness means that he can pick the correct time to intervene such that every human's decisions, while still free, will combine for a certain result.

[cellio]

You're right; "puppet" wasn't really the right characterization. Judas had free will and made a bad choice; this new manuscript puts forth a view that that was actually part of a plan, but that doesn't make it so.

It would seem, though, that the greatest villifaction should be reserved for Adam and Eve, who according to this theology introduced sin into the world that then required the kind of redemption that is only paid for with Jesus's execution. No original sin, no need for redemption. Why the particular focus on those most directly responsible for Jesus's death instead of the larger picture?

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

I suspect it's partly because Adam and Eve were mostly clueless while Judas ought to have known better, and partly from emotional attachment to Jesus which causes more rage against those who hurt him more directly.