Pesach and pets

[cellio]

During Pesach we are not permitted to eat, own, or benefit from chametz (leaven, but it's more complicated than that now). Traditional interpretations of halacha raise this as a problem for pet owners, because keeping your pets alive benefits you. So you have to find compliant forms of pet food, or send the pets elsewhere for a week, or perhaps sell the pets along with your chametz (I'm not sure if that works -- that would make you the custodian of someone else's pets for the week).

I think this interpretation of "benefit from" makes sense in the case of livestock (that you're ultimately going to profit from in some way), but I don't see it for pets. Pets aren't profit centers; they're family members -- you can argue about pecking order within the family, but that's another matter.

Still, I am mindful of the traditional problem. I can't change the food (one is on a special diet), and I'm not going to send them away or sell them, but I can still do something, without even invoking compassion or arguing about whether pikuach nefesh (serious health issues) applies to non-humans.

So, I hereby transfer ownership of the cat food in the house to the cats.

Comments

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

Are your cats Jewish? :-)

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Hm. If you transferred ownership of the house to the cats, then it would be their problem to clean for Pesach, wouldn't it?

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Since she's Jewish, and the cats are a bit like children, then the old standby that the mother's religion is transmitted to the children, should obtain. So I suppose the cats are Jewish.

However, if cat rabbis exist, I doubt the cats are communicating this to the humans very effectively, so keeping their version of Jewish law would have to be up to them.

Cellio, I hope you have a ... er, what's the right wish for the holiday? Happy Passover? or is that too flip for the occasion?

[cellio]

Nope. If they were, this wouldn't work -- I'd just be imposing a transgression on them, and they don't have the ability to object.

[cellio]

Since she's Jewish, and the cats are a bit like children, then the old standby that the mother's religion is transmitted to the children, should obtain.

Nope. Under Jewish law, the identity of the birth mother is what matters. If a Jewish family adopts a non-Jewish child, they have to convert the child formally. If I had given birth to my cats they'd be Jewish and I'd be the subject of many medical-journal articles. :-)

Happy Passover? or is that too flip for the occasion?

Happy Passover is just fine. Thanks!

[cellio]

Clever! But the lazy bums wouldn't actually do it, and I'd still have to be concerned about their chametz accidentally getting into my food, so I don't think that gets me off the hook for cleaning the kitchen.

[cellio]

Oh, and one other thing -- getting the house back after the holiday might be problematic, as they can't execute the sale. With the food, I'm making a gift with no strings attached, so I don't have to worry about it.

(The way chametz sales generally work is that all the chametz you don't want to completely get rid of gets sold to a gentile, and a week later it gets bought back. I'm describing this passively because there are details that have to be right for the sale to be valid, so generally the community's rabbi executes the sales on behalf of everyone who asks him to. But during that week the stuff really does belong to that gentile; he can show up and cart away your beer if he wants to. It only becomes yours again when he sells it back -- and I don't think the cats can conduct that sale.)

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

Well, my logic was much like cvirtue's. If they are family, and not just pets, then surely they are raised in their "Mother's" religion? :-)

With respect, though - I think the halacha in this is much ado about nothing. If the cats got out, and ate the neighbor's garbage including some stale bread, it would not be an issue.

But, let me take your logic in a different direction. If they are not exactly family, and not the sort of pet the Bible implies (because you don't receive a benefit), then they are either children (who need not practice) or room-mates. Room-mates who are not Jewish don't have to pay any attention to Halacha. Correct?

So, if you don't eat their kibble, you should be fine. :-)

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

You'd be set for life, is what you'd be!

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

You don't get any benefit from your pets being alive?

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

getting the house back after the holiday might be problematic, as they can't execute the sale.

If they don't complain about it, they must have agreed, right?

[dagonell.livejournal.com]

Well, lessee. Mice don't have cloven hoofs and they eat grain as their preference, so that makes them Kosher, right? :D :D
-- Dagonell

=0)

[cecerose.livejournal.com]

Great solution!

They're not Jewish. They're cats. Cats have no religion, other than "feed, adore and pay attention to ME..." ;o)

[woodwindy.livejournal.com]

*snerk*

Don't let the nitpickers faze you -- I think you've hit on the perfect solution. ;)

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

Ha! I like this idea.

The way I've solved the pet problem in the past is to sell the cat's food to the roommates and ask them to feed the cats for the week, or to feed the cats non-chumetz for the week (tuna and chicken and such). This year, I think we're going with the first solution -- the cats get sick if they don't have their anti-hairball food, especially with the winter coat shedding.

[zare-k.livejournal.com]

Heh, nice solution.
Are non-humans ever bound by the halacha at all?

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

That's what I do. After all, we call it "Boopsie's food" anyway. Therefore, we don't need to transfer ownership to her in any case: it's hers to start with.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

No.

However, there is the following joke:

A Jewish hiker is lost in the woods, when, all of a sudden, he is confronted by an obviously hungry bear.

He realizes that he is in SERIOUS trouble, as the bear is evidently thinking of him as a snack, and he starts to say the Sh'ma, which you are supposed to attempt to say before death, if you can manage it.

Then he notices that the bear is ALSO praying in Hebrew!

"Amazing!" he thinks, "I'm saved! The bear is ALSO a member of the tribe!"

Then he hears WHAT the bear is saying:
". . . shehakol n'heyeah bidvaro. . . "

[cellio]

I get the benefit of companionship, else I wouldn't have them in the first place. Even if that companionship became inconvenient, though (say, one of them was sick all the time and grumpy), by adopting them I accepted a lifetime obligation to see to their care.

I wouldn't acquire a pet who required chametz food during Pesach, because that would be making a choice to bring chametz into the house unnecessarily. But since they're already there, I owe them continued sustenance, with or without lap cuddles and other warm fuzzies.

[cellio]

If they are not exactly family, and not the sort of pet the Bible implies (because you don't receive a benefit), then they are either children (who need not practice) or room-mates. Room-mates who are not Jewish don't have to pay any attention to Halacha. Correct?

Non-Jews don't need to worry about any of this, right. It's just that the house, and by default its contents, are owned by Jews, and Jews aren't allowed to own chametz, so I have to make sure I don't own it. If I had a non-Jewish housemate I'd take care of the problem that way, as chaiya suggests.

[cellio]

The cats aren't bound in what they can eat at all; they're not Jewish. I'm bound in what I can own for the next week and change.

[cellio]

Are non-humans ever bound by the halacha at all?

Nope. It's not about what they can eat; it's about what I can own. So since I'm not going to dip into the kibble anyway, it's not like I actually need to own their food. Ok, I can't use their food to feed strays, but I wasn't going to do that anyway.

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

But since the cats don't control the food, just own it, that makes you their guardian?

[cellio]

(Translation for non-Jews: that's the appropriate blessing before eating. And we'll just set aside the question of why the bear doesn't keep kosher (humans are treif).)

[cellio]

I'm their guardian and administer their food (pretty much on demand; there's always food out, and Erik the sick kitty can have his special food any time he wants). Just like kid might have money in a bank account that belongs to him, but his parents (as guardians) have to administer his access to it.

[rectangularcat]

Chag Sameach!

Haha I love this cat entry! My cats would argue that they too have ownership of the cat food - on a daily allocation basis. They'd like full control... but alas no.

wrong icon!

[rectangularcat]

D'oh - such a wrong icon for you. This one is much cuter...

Re: wrong icon!

[cellio]

It's ok -- besides, the first cat doesn't exactly look festive and bouncy with those bunny-ears. :-)

(But the second one is very cute.)

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Humans are treif for humans. . .

[zare-k.livejournal.com]

Ah, that makes sense. Personally I don't think of myself as a cat /owner/, more of a cat host or cat maintainer :p

[sk4p.livejournal.com]

SANEST. RELIGIOUS. SOLUTION. EVAR. I congratulate you.

Re: wrong icon!

[rectangularcat]

But when I specifically try to give you an appropriate greeting for Passover you'd think I'd not have an icon intended for Easter! *grins*

[dr4b]

I never even thought about it, hmm. When I was a kid we kept kosher and we did have pet dogs, but I don't think my parents really paid too much attention to having the dogs keep kosher!

[anniemal.livejournal.com]

Because I have no comprehension of any religion at all, just the knowledge that a religion could pose such a set of such ridiculous problems to someone whom I admire for being serious about her religion makes me feel so happy that I picked my right course.

[anniemal.livejournal.com]

I do recycle, and always reuse. What are Grandpa's cultivating implements for, besides Homeland Security?

[cellio]

The cats can eat whatever they want; the problem is who owns the food before they get around to eating it.

[jducoeur]

Ha! You *are* starting to think like a rabbi -- that's a positively brilliant workaround...

[kyleri]

Dude. That so totally rocks as a solution. :)

[cellio]

I do share the house with someone who has volunteered to do things like turn lights on and off on Shabbat, but since he's Jewish I can't ask him to help. :-)

[cellio]

Thank you!

[cellio]

Thanks!

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

So I think you wouldn't have this problem with a dog, since the dog could eat your (kosher) table scraps during Passover?

How do Jewish farmers of livestock deal with this requirement?

[cellio]

In theory I could also just feed the cats canned tuna for a week, too. But my vet says disrupting their regular diet would be bad, especially for Erik. Presumably you have the same considerations with dogs -- if it's not unhealthy to do so you just feed them people food, but if it is you don't.

I don't actually know how Jews who own livestock deal with the problem. I'm guessing they sell the livestock along with their fields, and maybe when you're dealing on that scale it's even practical to have someone else come in to tend them.

[estherchaya.livejournal.com]

it's entirely possible, by the way, that the cat's food, particularly Erik's special diet, is just fine for Pesach. There are MANY diets for pets out there that contain only kitniyos and no chometz. You can check the ingredients.

[estherchaya.livejournal.com]

the dogs don't have to keep kosher per se, though you can't serve a dog milk and meat together, and during pesach many people switch to a kitniyos only food rather than one with wheat for the pets.

Re: =0)

[rob-of-unspace.livejournal.com]

I don't think we want to go there. I've got a nasty suspicion cats think they are deities.

Is Parrot Food Kosher?

[rob-of-unspace.livejournal.com]

I was going to joke about how easy it would be for parrots at Passover. Strangely, though, a joke about parrots and crackers/matzoh sounds vaguely racist. That's just a human reaction: a parrot would simply say "I don't care about stereotypes: give me the &*^% cracker or I'll bite you."

("Are parrots religious?" is a disturbing question for another time. Short answer: No.)

Depending upon the diet the parrot is given, there may be grain products, where the question is "Is it chametz free?" Interesting question, and on looking into it, I've got a headache.

The problems of transfering ownership of items to a creature that can understand ownership, token economies, cause and effect and can talk about it is an exercise left to the reader.