cellio | driving fun

Dear City of Pittsburgh,

I'm not unreasonable; I don't expect pristine roads while snow is actually falling. But you've known this was coming for days, and it's not off hours, and Forbes Avenue is kind of a major road (to say nothing of the lesser roads). I really expected to see some evidence of plowing or salting this morning.

No love,
Monica

Dear driver from Ohio,

You should be familiar with the white fluffy stuff from back home. No one else on the highway is having difficulty maintaining the posted minimum speed of 40mph. If you really think that's twice what's safe, could you at least have the decency to stop swerving between lanes and slamming on your brakes at every little twitter of fear? And maybe consider getting off at the next exit and taking local roads?

But hey, at least I know my horn works now.

What is the law (and etiquette, for that matter) concerning stopping for accidents you witness but aren't in? Ever since I was run down by someone speeding through a red light, and not one of the several witnesses stopped to support my story (or see if I was ok -- I was thrown several feet), I've tried to stop if I actually see the accident and I can. I always stop if I see clear fault (and especially if I think the underdog is going to take the hit unfairly, like when the bicyclist or pedestrian really was being stupid), or if anyone seems to be injured. (Well, unless police or an ambulance just happen to be there...) But I didn't stop for either of the two fender-benders I saw on my way to work today, because they looked minor and what would be the point? It got me wondering about what my obligations are in all of these cases, from fender-benders up to major squishings, in light of my observation that no one else ever seems to stop. Does everyone just assume that the insurance companies, police, and ambulance crew will work it out, and your testimony or other help is irrelevant?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I have learned to always assume that Pennsylvania drivers failed their exam, Ohio drivers are actually stupid, and Michigan drivers are actually criminally insane.

That is a good question -- about stopping. I often use my cell phone to notify police that it is there...if I witnessed the accident directly, I think I'd stop and give my name to whoever seemed right to give it to, or wait around for police. I've never witnessed an accident that I wasn't involved in, though.

Wow -- no one stopped when you were hit? That is terrible. I was hit when I was 17, and I remember being appalled (as only a teenager can be) with the crowd that assembled. One guy wrecked his own car chasing the car that hit me, in fact (not a police car). Upside of that was that the driver was caught and charged.

But then, I got hit in Verona (yep, where I teach now), which is pretty much a small town. People reacted the way small town folk tend to when there is trouble. Where was your accident?

I was hit in Swissvale, at Braddock and Edgewood and, err, whatever that other street is. (The intersection with the CoGo and gas station, near the overpass that trucks often get stuck under because they don't understand that 10'6" means them.)

If anyone stopped, the gesture didn't extend to actually getting out of the car. There was a line of traffic stopped at the red light when it happened; any of those people could have pulled into the adjacent parking lot, walked over, and handed me a phone number, but none did.

This is, by the way, why I will always carry the full-tort option on my auto policy. It has already paid for itself for a couple decades. The driver's insurance company was going to stiff me; they didn't believe my account and I couldn't prove it, and they mistakingly believed I had signed away my right to sue over it. When I told them I had full-tort coverage, they settled within a day. It wasn't a big settlement, and I think I could have gotten more in court, but I also would have had the hassle of going to court, and really what I wanted was expenses and fair compensation for my hassle. The lawyer I talked to at the time gave me some guidelines on what would be fair for that type of accident.

In retrospect it wasn't enough, as the accident was a non-trivial contributor to my leaving my then-employer. But I couldn't have known that at the time.

Oh, I know that intersection. I can't believe no one stopped. That is terrible.

A lot of people won't, though.

I hav stopped for fenderbenders, but only if I thought my statements in court might matter. If I "kinda saw", I dont, at least for fenderbenders where injuries are highly unlikely.

For anything where people likely got hurt, even in a "kinda saw" situation, I stop. At the very least I can administer first aid if needed.

I have never been called upon to testify ( thank goodness ) but dont feel right keeping going.

This morning I saw someone back out of a driveway into slow-moving traffic (crunch), and someone skid and bump another car (slow, dunno if crunch). Both times it was obvious that no one was hurt, and in the first case I was on a hill and stopping might have posed problems getting started again, so I kept going.

I once saw a driver hit a bicyclist (who had run a stop sign); for that I definitely stopped (and gave contact information to both people). The other accident I remember seeing was someone who had to slam on the brakes and swerve to avoid someone who cut him off; he then hit a tree. I couldn't get the license plate of the car he was dodging (that driver didn't stick around), but I gave him my phone number in case it would be helpful with the insurance claim.

I don't drive that much/far. I'm starting to feel like an accident magnet...

I call 911, and give contact information. I can be found if needed.

(This presumes that it is just a fender bender or something like that.)

On the other hand, one time, that lead to an awful lot of phone calls. Driver of a cube-truck ignored a "maxium height" sign, and plowed into it. Bent it over, trapping cars in the lot. He left.

I managed to get out before the sign finished falling, and followed him - calling in his plate number. I sure got a lot of calls from the town (who prosecuted for the cost of repair) and the defense attorney trying to shake my story...

Wow, that one sounds interesting! I'll bet that driver didn't keep his job, as he exposed his company to the suit.

I have my doubts. Many years ago, my van was legally parked in a parking lot. A semi rig had to back and fill to line up with the driveway to get out. He backed into my van. I ran up and told him what he had done. He picked up a pad, tore off the top sheet and handed it to me. I figured that he wanted to exchange information. It was an accident form with all of his information already filled in! He didn't even bother to collect any info from me, he drove off. I made a copy of the form because this was new territory for me. I filled in the rest of the form with my information and a description of the accident and sent it off to his insurance company. They sent a check to cover my damages, I never even got so much as a phone call.
-- Dagonell

Trucking/busing companies are probably used to collisions with other vehicles, and they can delude themselves that the other drivers might have been at fault. Property damage on the scale of overpasses and then leaving the scene of the accident might be different. Or might not!

I'm not sure how it works in PA, but I seem to recall that medical personnel (EMTs, RNs, etc) are required by law here to stop and render aid. We've reported a small number of accidents over the years to check if the Highway Patrol is aware of them, but none that we've actually seen in progress.

Of course, Forbes Ave is really nasty when iced over. When I was still at CMU, I heard a car flip over while making the turn at Forbes and Morewood and turned just in time to see the car slide down the hill on its roof towards the old Bureau of Mines.

I've made the occasional 911 call when I see the aftermath and no responders are there yet. I don't tend to call in fender-benders, though, as locally the police don't care if there are no injuries and everyone can drive away. I was pretty surprised one time when I was involved in a four-car accident (I believe I was deemed the only blameless person in that) and the police didn't write a report.

I imagine that the "should you stop" laws differ from state to state, so even if I knew mine it wouldn't help you. If I actually saw an accident (in the sense of "could give useful eye-witness details") I stop and make sure I give my info to all parties involved. Though, come to think of it, I think this has only happened to me once while driving. Back when I was taking the bus to UC Berkeley regularly, I was a witness a couple times to fender benders. While I seem to have no useful memory at all for faces, I seem to have an above-aveage memory for details of events. And I feel an unwarranted glee at being able to give evidence against really stupidly self-centered drivers.

I've seen several accidents happen -- what feels like a disproportionate number, now that I think about it. I, too, have a good memory for events but a poor one for faces.

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