[SCA] horses

[cellio]

This past weekend there was an event at Cooper's Lake (AEthelmearc 10th-year celebration). I was surprised to read that the event would include equestrian activities. This is something that's been growing in the SCA in the last several years, but most sites aren't set up for horses and Cooper's Lake has not historically permitted them. (The last time I saw a horse at Cooper's Lake, it was being ridden by Morgan Elandris through a Pennsic attended by a couple thousand people.)

I'd never seen SCA equestrian activies before, so I decided to go watch. The event schedule didn't give a location, but I figured it had to be somewhere out near the battlefield and it would be visible. I'm glad we ran into someone who knew better; it was actually tucked way off in a corner of the site that I didn't even know existed, accessible via wagon. There was a wagon just leaving the battlefield, so I hopped on.

I was told there were eight horses there, though I never saw them all at once. The owners had set up pens next to their horse trailers and were camping back there (rather than in the main part of the campground). It seemed like they were having their own private (tiny) camp-out; it's probably not a good idea to leave the horses for long in an unfamiliar setting, and I saw no indication that the folks we saw there were participating in anything else at the event. I understand not wanting to have spookable half-ton horses "downtown" at an event, but I hope we can find better ways to make things a little more integrated in the future. I don't know how much of that isolation was needed for the horses versus imposed by the site.

The arena (a fenced-off ring) was set up for quintains when I was there. The SCA rightly does not do jousting (too dangerous); this is "jousting" at a target. A vertical pole has a rotating cross-piece with a small flat area (think shield); the contest is to hit that with your lance and the more times it spins, the better your score. I was surprised to learn that the biggest factor in how much spin you get is the weight of the lance -- I would have figured that half a ton of horse would dwarf a few pounds of lance or that lance cross-section would matter more than weight, but neither of those is true. (I didn't ask, but assume that where on the flat part you hit it also matters -- the farther out the better, right?)

I was surprised by how much warm-up the horses needed first. (It seemed to be for the horses more than the riders.) I watched the following sequence with one horse: first the rider walked the horse around the ring a couple times, then went around a couple more times a little faster (what's after walk, canter?). Only then did she pick up a lance, which she carried vertically while riding the horse around the ring again. (This was explained thus: anything taller than the horse is perceived as a threat, so this is to get the horse used to seeing that.) Only after a few rounds of this did the person level the lance and ride slowly toward the quintain, hitting and spinning it a couple times, all still at that one-notch-above-walk speed. I never saw a full gallop; it might not have been practical in that size ring. (I asked someone about possible top speed and he said 20mph if they were using the whole length of the ring, but the quintains were in the middle so not as fast.)

All of this warm-up was to get the horse used to something it had done a couple hours earlier. Wow. I asked one of the people how often he practices with his horse just for maintenance, and he said three times a week. That doesn't surprise me. He said is biggest challenge is winter, when sometimes it's too cold for weeks on end to do this stuff.

I saw a lot of practice but not the actual competitions (had to get back for something else at the event). I don't know when I'll next get to see this; in addition to site limitations, the SCA requires additional insurance if you want to have equestrian activities at your event, which cost smaller events won't be able to absorb. So it's got to be limited to larger events at suitable sites.

Comments

the physics of the quintain

[brokengoose.livejournal.com]

I was surprised to learn that the biggest factor in how much spin you get is the weight of the lance -- I would have figured that half a ton of horse would dwarf a few pounds of lance or that lance cross-section would matter more than weight, but neither of those is true. (I didn't ask, but assume that where on the flat part you hit it also matters -- the farther out the better, right?)

Warning: Pure speculation.

I'd guess that if you were to accurately measure the speed at the tip of the lance, you'd see a lot of variation. Add to this the rider's desire to stay on the horse and thus, the reflexive attempt to absorb the blow. More lance weight equals more lance inertia that's not absorbed. Use a mental model where the rider's torso and arms are big springs. The springs make the weight of the horse almost irrelevant.

As to the proper place to hit the target, think about a really exaggerated example. Perhaps a very heavy but well-balanced 20-foot long metal bar. Next to the pivot point, it would be very difficult to turn the bar, but if you could, the outer edge would move quite far. At the outer edge, it'd be much easier to turn, but it wouldn't go very far. You'd be limited by speed rather than strength. I'd imagine that for the quintain, the sweet spot would be as far inside as possible without jarring the lance out of the rider's hands.

Re: the physics of the quintain

[geekosaur]

SImilarly, re lance weight: I'd guess that weight of the lance is a first cut at the physics of energy transfer from the lance to the target, and a heavier lance would transfer more energy. (It's more a matter of density, though. Maximum energy transfer would be a high density and small cross-section, IIRC.)

Re: the physics of the quintain

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

A more familiar analogy might be a baseball bat. A heavier bat is instinctively going to add more power, moreso than the weight of the batter (though that does count). It's because you have such a narrow window of time to transfer momentum from the lance to the quintain (or from the bat to the ball), before the target springs away: in that narrow section of time, you can't maintain a rigid connection between the weight of the horse and the lance, or even between the lance and yourself, and so what primarily donates its momentum is your arm and the lance. Most people don't joust with differing weights of arm, so it's the lance where the effect is seen the most. This is why bat weight (and weight distribution) are so carefully monitored. (I'm leaving out bat speed, which is an important bit too.)

Jousting technique and armor is designed to improve this transfer, by locking your arm to your hips, your hips to the saddle, and the saddle to the horse, but even so it only does so much. With a real target like a human, which won't swing away as fast, you can transfer much more of the inertia of the human and horse. This is what makes jousting so devastating when done correctly (extremely high PSI at the lance tip, continuing for a relatively long time compared to, say, an arrow). But it also means you have a high risk of being unhorsed or breaking your shoulder if you don't know what you're doing, and even if you do you and the horse will get a nasty jolt.

As for quintain targets, many of them have bulleyes drawn on them, as you're going for accuracy as well as quintain movement.

Re: the physics of the quintain

[cellio]

The baseball-bat scenario seems different because the batter is not (significantly) moving; it's not like he's running toward the pitcher while also swinging at the ball. But you make good points about the lance, ones I hadn't thought about.

I just realized that for all that I watched this on Saturday, I didn't register one detail: is the lance held in the left hand (spear-style), or in the right and crossing the back of the horse and bracing somewhere on the right? The first seems like it would be easier to "lock in", but most people are not left-handed and maybe that matters for aiming. I just realized that, being a quasi-lefty, my instinct would be to hold the lance in my left hand, parallel to the horse, braced between my arm and body -- which is almost certainly wrong.

Re: the physics of the quintain

[tashabear.livejournal.com]

However, the bat is moving laterally to impact the moving ball, while the lance is hitting a stationary object with its tip. Personally, I just tried to hit the shield dead center: less chance of the lance tip skidding off and not spinning the quintain.

The lance is held however it is comfortable for the rider. Whether it's an offside pass (across the horse's neck) or nearside depends on which hand and which side of the quintain they are trying to strike. I have seen it held with the elbow away from the body, but I'm not strong enough to do that. I've always braced it between elbow and body. You would not be wrong to hold the lance parallel to the horse.