cellio: (out-of-mind)
Monica ([personal profile] cellio) wrote2007-10-06 10:49 pm
Entry tags:

Internet time

I know, of course, that things happen more quickly on the internet than they did in the Old Days (TM). Even so, this surprised me a little.

On Wednesday (so right before Simchat Torah), someone proposed on a mailing list for (Reform) worship leaders and hangers-on that we form a group to do online talmud study following the Daf Yomi cycle. (Daf Yomi = "a page a day".) There were a bunch of messages that day that I didn't have time to read before the holiday.

Thursday night there were something like 150 messages on this topic, mostly "sign me up"s and a few with real content (format, moderation, sources, just for Reform Jews?, etc). I sent private mail saying "sign me up" and posted publicly saying hey, this sounds interesting, and are we all aware of how big a task this is? A page of talmud has a lot packed on it, after all; do we want to attempt that or study talmud at a slower pace and not following this cycle? (While I didn't post this, I believe that it takes people who already know what they're doing, and who are working on-on-one with a partner in person, at least an hour to cover that much ground. Every day.) I also made some comments about the content issues others had brought up. Finally, because someone had suggested asking the rabbis and rabbinic students on our list to lead discussions in turn, I said that I'm neither of those but I have some clues here and I'd be willing to take a shot at leading a day (or a daf, or whatever).

I got two responses, one (public) from the original poster kind of blowing off everything I said, and one (private) from someone saying I rock (or words to that effect). Shrug. Just trying to help; if you don't want it that's fine too.

Friday morning a rabbi I hold in high regard academically (from his posts, and from studying with him at HUC) posted an amplified form of my concerns (independently; I don't think he had read my message) and rather strongly urging this group to begin with the basics (how to study talmud), choose some easy tractates to start with, and ignore Daf Yomi. After some back-and-forth the original poster concurred.

Friday mid-day someone in an official position at URJ posted saying "we at URJ, HUC, and CCAR are in the process of organizing this study for you; please sit tight", or words to that effect. This prompted responses ranging from "we didn't ask for your help, actually" to "how dare you try to take this away from us". Since then there has been a little discussion of good texts for beginners, and that's about it.

From enthusiastic pie-in-the-sky idea to reality check to apparent hostile takeover, all in about 48 hours. This sort of thing used to take weeks on Usenet. :-)

Personally, I'm torn (while recognizing that I only somewhat have a horse in this race). On the one hand, I think the folks trying to organize this should go ahead; we should enpower laypeople, and this isn't in the context of any congregation. It's just people who want to get together. On the other hand, I think it was probably doomed without a higher proportion of experienced/educated folks stepping in; the vast majority of people who said anything at all said they'd never touched talmud before. If it proceeds as an informal group, I will do my best to teach what I can (deferring to my betters, of course) but suspect I will get frustrated and give up. (As a friend recently said when leaving a doomed organization, "this isn't working and I don't have time to teach a class".) If The Powers That Be step in, the result will probably be a good, but somewhat sterile, online class.

There is one positive outcome if TPTB take it over. There is one poster on the mailing list who is rude, arrogant, hypocritical, and willfully non-compliant with basic email etiquette. (Why hasn't this person been booted off the list? My best guess is that the list owners don't have the backbone for it.) This person was one of the ones who strongly objected, saying "if you do that, count me out". I would be pleased with that outcome, personally. :-)

I see a few possible outcomes now, and I'm curious which way it will go. There's a non-trivial chance that the whole thing will fizzle by, say, Wednesday. There's a good chance that we will end up with two efforts, which dooms the informal one as those who could best help will be involved with the formal one. We could get a good formal class, but it can only take advantage of the wave by starting within a week or two, I think, and I don't know if TPTB are used to moving that quickly. Or we could get just the informal effort, which will have some good discussions but bog down in people who don't know how to participate politely on active mailing lists until most of the knowledgable people leave. We'll see.

ext_87516: (torah)

[identity profile] 530nm330hz.livejournal.com 2007-10-07 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
This is my third cycle of failing to keep up with Daf Yomi. It sounds a lot easier than it is.

But hey, Daf Yomi is owned and operated by Agudas Yisroel. As much as I believe in achdut Yisrael, I think this would be a great opportunity for UAHC --- or just a bunch of committed Reform Jews --- to say "hey, let's develop a daily Talmud study program that works for us." Take Masechet Berakhot, divide it up into a year of study, with a siyyum planned for next Simchat Torah, and with a managable amount of text each day, but with coordinated online and offline classes to teach it along the lines of the daf yomi model.

The best part about doing "the Daf" was being able to walk into any Orthodox community and be literally on the same page with them, and to take advantage of all the online resources that are "in sync" with one another. Capture that power, but don't feel bound to the DY schedule.

Especially don't jump in here. In addition to the other reasons that you suggest such a plan might be doomed, I don't think this segment of seder nashim would endear Talmud study to the members of a liberal movement, if you catch my drift.