daf bit: Ketuvot 61

[cellio]

A mishna teaches: if a married man makes a vow of celibacy, Beit Shammai says his wife must tolerate it for two weeks. Beit Hillel says one week. Rav says that this is only so when the man specifies a duration for the vow; if he does not, Rav says that both Shammai and Hillel require him to immediately divorce his wife and pay her ketubah. Samuel permits him to delay the divorce while looking for a way to be excused from the vow. (61b)

(There is no discussion here of limits on the duration, but I'll bet there is later in the gemara. Oh, and I don't know who Samuel is.)

This same mishna also gives the requirements for how often a man owes his wife intercourse (if she wants it), by the way. It varies by occupation, ranging from daily for men who don't work at all to every six months for sailors. I don't see scholars on the list. :-)

Comments

[cellio]

Yeah, I don't know how long she can leave him, er, wanting. I have the impression that she gets more of a say than he does, but I'm not sure why I think this.

As a married man, I can't imagine wanting to make a vow of celibacy.

I suspect that's true for most. But consider the case where Something Awful has happened that causes you to be much, much less attracted to her, but you're a greedy/lazy SOB who doesn't wnat to have to pay her ketubah. This would be a handy dodge -- "gee sorry, honey, don't know what I was thinking, but vows to the almighty are unbreakable, so I guess we're stuck".

I have no idea at all if the rabbis saw that as a possibility. Given some of the other places the rabbinic imagination goes, I don't dismiss it out of hand.

[nsingman.livejournal.com]

I remember reading (I think it was in Maurice Lamm's "The Jewish Way in Love and Marriage") a list of a Jewish husband's obligations to his wife, and hers to him. The former list was considerably longer than the latter. Rabbi Lamm argued that this makes good sense because he can divorce her, but she can't divorce him.

[cellio]

That makes sense, yes. Not only can't she divorce him, but he can divorce her without issuing the get and therefore leave her unable to marry while he remarries freely.

Length of list is only meaningful if weighted by magnitude. For example, he has to support her in the manner to which they have become accustomed; she has to make his bed, cook his food, and wash his hands and feet. That's not one versus three in most cases. :-)

[chaos-wrangler.livejournal.com]

...but he can divorce her without issuing the get and therefore leave her unable to marry while he remarries freely.


Not exactly: under Jewish law the get is the divorce, so from the gemara's point of view (i.e. looking only at Jewish law) the situation you're describing is non-existent. It only occurs when Jewish law and local law aren't one and the same. When they are, he can remarry freely (in the sense of marrying a second/additional wife) but if he wants to be free of the first wife he has to divorce her & thus free her to marry someone else.

[cellio]

That's a good point. Thanks.

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

If she refuses (there is a dispute if this is sex or work), she loses 1 dinar per day(same as a zuz, except we rarely if ever talk aout 1 zuz). So assuming a normal virgin ketuba with no addition, she can refuse for 200 days before becoming ketuba-less, which just means divorcing her is free. She still needs a get. Note, if the man refuses, the woman's ketuba increases by 3 dinar per week, which is 1/2 per day, but her ketuba can't go up on Shabbat. Why it can go down on Shabbat, I am unsure.