daf bit: Ketuvot 61

[cellio]

A mishna teaches: if a married man makes a vow of celibacy, Beit Shammai says his wife must tolerate it for two weeks. Beit Hillel says one week. Rav says that this is only so when the man specifies a duration for the vow; if he does not, Rav says that both Shammai and Hillel require him to immediately divorce his wife and pay her ketubah. Samuel permits him to delay the divorce while looking for a way to be excused from the vow. (61b)

(There is no discussion here of limits on the duration, but I'll bet there is later in the gemara. Oh, and I don't know who Samuel is.)

This same mishna also gives the requirements for how often a man owes his wife intercourse (if she wants it), by the way. It varies by occupation, ranging from daily for men who don't work at all to every six months for sailors. I don't see scholars on the list. :-)

Comments

[magid.livejournal.com]

Rav and Shmuel are a pair of mishnaic contemporaries, like Hillel and Shammai.

[wrenb.livejournal.com]

When I learned about this passage many many years ago, I thought that scholars were listed as once a week.

As for the vow of celibacy, Shammai's ruling makes a lot of sense in view of the usual practices of taharat hamishpachah (sp?). Unless of course the man vows to be celibate for the two weeks following his wife's trip to the mikveh. In which case he could well be vowing celibacy for 4 weeks, and Hillel makes a whole lot of sense.

I love this section of Talmud. For me it illustrates that the Rabbis were thinking about real life.

[ginamariewade.livejournal.com]

Yabbut, the man who doesn't work at all can least afford the multitude of babies that would result from daily nookie.

[hlinspjalda.livejournal.com]

I don't see scholars on the list. :-)

According to most medieval Kabbalists, including HaAri, it's once a week: Friday nights.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I also want to point out that, in cases of multiple marriages, EACH wife gets that much. And concubines count, as well. And "Slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am" doesn't cut it -- it has to be what she WANTS.

And kings are in the "once-a-day" category.

This is how we know that King Schlomo was blessed by G-d. Because he, alone among humans, was able to manage to satisfy 900 women per day.

[nsingman.livejournal.com]

Of course, if she doesn't want it and he does, her recalcitrance can cost her the ketuba's promised payment (incrementally, until she complies or is sent packing, as I recall).

As a married man, I can't imagine wanting to make a vow of celibacy. As a married man whose wife was once very observant, I can't begin to imagine doing so at any time other than when she was niddah. :-)