daf bit: Nedarim 27

[cellio]

The mishna teaches that a vow that is broken under duress -- that is, because one was unavoidably detained from keeping it -- is nullified, and the person making the vow is not held accountable. (27a) It goes on to discuss vows made under duress -- specifically, to a murderer, robber, or publican -- and rules they are also not binding. Beit Shammai says this is only if the murderer (etc) forced him to vow; Beit Hillel says even if not. (27b-28a)

(I can understand the murderer case -- say anything you need to to deter him -- and even the robber (robber is different from thief). But publican? I'd love to know the backstory there, but the gemara doesn't comment on that beyond saying it means an unauthorized one.)

Comments

[ginamariewade.livejournal.com]

Publicans were government officials. I would imagine that it would include things like promising public officials that you would not practice Judaism or that you would not circumcise your sons.

[dsrtao]

A quick dict says that a publican might be a tax collector. An unauthorized tax collector sounds criminal to me.

[cellio]

Oh, that would make sense! The text here seems to be talking about property ownership, and I didn't think about broader interpretations.

[cellio]

Sure, to me too -- but it's a different kind of crime than the ones where bodily harm is intended or likely, so I was surprised to see it there. It's one thing to say "say anything to protect your life", and another to say "say anything to protect your wallet".

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

I vaguely remember, but can't place, something I read about ancient tax collecting practices. It made them sound a lot like the Mob... i.e. bodily harm *was* likely if you didn't pay up. An *unauthorized* tax collector, in such a case, would reasonably be lumped in with murderers and robbers. (Still, I don't have any concrete shoes evidence to back up this idea.)

[talvinamarich.livejournal.com]

Well, for what *may* be considered a classic example, see the Parable of the Pharisee and the Publican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisee_and_the_Publican). My main gripe with this one is that it specifies that publicans were Jews, and that strikes me as being difficult to support. (The parable may have been written to indicate that the specific publican in question was Jewish, but the office does not seem to have been specific to a faith or ethnic group.)

This article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican) doesn't list any sources, but it seems consistent with what others have said.

It does appear to be "tax collector", based on that. To (perhaps) put it in another context: the "Sheriff of Nottingham" from the Robin Hood mythos would have been a tax collector: "Shire-Reeve", as I understand it. The level of authority over the locals would probably be similar.

But I am more than willing to be shot down if somebody has better info. :) It might be worth your while to find somebody who does serious Late-Roman persona in the SCA and ask them if they have any sources? Or does this come from a different era?

Deleted and re-added: my HTML went south. :P

Re:publicans

[caryabend.livejournal.com]

Sure, we have problems with them even today! :)

Re: publicans

[dagonell.livejournal.com]

No, no, that's re-publicans! :D Oops, sorry! Did I say that out loud? :D
-- Dagonell

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

...I interpreted "publican" as "someone who runs a tavern", and was wondering about oaths made while drunk. Apparently that's a much more modern meaning for that word, though. :)

[cellio]

That was the meaning I knew too, but it seemed odd enough (what's an unauthorized tavern-keeper?) that I consulted a dictionary.

[cellio]

Thanks for the information.

From context, it seems like that particular publican would have had to be Jewish; the story is about people praying in the temple. I don't read it as saying that all publicans were, though of course I'm no expert.

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