daf bit: Nedarim 33

[cellio]

The mishnah teaches: if a man has vowed not to benefit from his neighbor, the neighbor may still pay his shekel (temple tax), settle his debts (if the debtor does not otherwise benefit), or return a lost item to him. The gemara compares these acts to driving away a lion -- a neighborly act. (33a)

(Today is really daf 34, but the discussion there is pretty complicated, with no good entry points.)

Comments

[magid.livejournal.com]

Of course, the mishnah leads me directly to the question of why someone is vowing not to benefit from his neighbor. Sounds like some feud or something, which shouldn't be dignified with the application of a vow anyway (imho).

[cellio]

Oh yeah, I meant to comment on that. I haven't found anything yet that addresses why one would make such a vow, and I wonder about that.

This one was discussed along with the (more restricted) case of a man who vows not to eat his neighbor's food (which I can see a reason for IFF it's a kashrut issue). That man cannot borrow food-related implements (the mishnah says sifter, sieve, mill-stone, or oven) either, so in that case the vow seems more strict while in the case I posted about it seems more lenient.

[magid.livejournal.com]

I guess my assumption is that a vow is a huge deal, so while vowing not to eat the neighbor's food gives you a really legitimate reason not to eat it (in the sense that you've got a ready-made excuse), it just leads up the chain to why one felt it necessary to make that vow. Which the neighbor could figure out, presumably.

I think my understanding of how vows work in interpersonal dynamics is not the headspace the Mishnah is working in...

[cellio]

I suspect that neither of us is in the mishnah's headspace, yes.

I'm imagining a conversation like this one as possibly justifying such a vow:

"Honey, I know you're good friends with Peter Peter Bacon-Eater, but I'm just not comfortable with you spending time there, especially with our kids along."

"I vow not to eat anything, and to use this to teach the kids tact while keeping to the law."

[caryabend.livejournal.com]

I see the word benefit used here in the sense of "impose upon," or perhaps in the broader sense of being in a debt of courtesy that can't be easily repaid.

For example: You will be away. You cannot ask your neighbor to look after your cat, as you will benefit from this. It may be that offering to pay your neighbor for this service removes the onus of "benefit." I wonder about the case of unsolicted action. Suppose the neighbor, knowing you're away, mows your lawn to keep up appearances so that it won't be targeted by thieves?

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

"Benefit" in the MIshna generally means something along the lines of "gain some useful thing (thing including non-concrete things) from" Essentially you prohibit anything nice he might give you/do for you to yourself.