daf bit: Nedarim 48

[cellio]

The mishna discusses using an intermediary to get around a vow. Suppose a father has vowed not to benefit from his son. His son wants to host a banquet for his own son's wedding, and the mishna proposes that he give the banquet (that is, the resources to pay for it) to a neighbor on the condition that his father be invited. The gemara debates whether this is valid, and concludes that if he says "so that my father can come" it is legal but if he says "on condition that my father can come", it is not a legitimate gift. The decision must be left to the recipient, but the giver is allowed to make a request. (48b)

Comments

Re: Tangential, but significant I think:

[cellio]

However, while a person who puts a banana peel in front of a blind person in hopes that he'll comically fall is certainly sinning, he may not be violating this verse.

Hmm, ok. I had assumed that there was no reason to be shy when counting reasons not to sin. :-) But if it's meant only figuratively, you're right that there's other coverage available for the literal reading.

Also, it applies to more than women's attire, even if that is where the noise about it comes from.

I was also thinking of kol isha but wasn't sure I wanted to get into it. Tzniut (modest dress, in case anyone else is still reading) is an easier case in one way: it is almost always possible to avert one's eyes, but sometimes harder to not listen.

Thanks for the additional information on modesty.

Eating on Yom Kippur: I had assumed that the reason one isn't blatant is not so much tempting others as leading them to think negatively of you (marit ayin).

(Realistically, I think most people would resist the temptation to eat, but suffer greater hunger pangs because they see someone eating.)

Speaking only for myself: I've seen people eat on Yom Kippur, and it didn't affect my actual or perecived hunger. I am, of course, only one person -- not known to be atypical, but still just one person.

Re: Tangential, but significant I think:

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

Ordinarily there is no reason to be shy in counting reasons not to sin. Toward the end of Masechet Makkot, they count up how many prohibitions punishable by lashes a person can simultaneously violate (which isn't quite the same thing). However, I recall having heard in a class once that it may not be literally because it is so obviously metaphorical.

Again, tzniut does not mean ONLY mean modest dress, even if that is the area most likely to get "TZNIUS!!" shouted at you on the streets of Mea Shearim.

Marit ayin probably also factors in to the discresion shown by those eating on YK. I'm still inclined to think in a non marit ayin situation (small shul where everyone knows you, or very obviously pregnant, etc), people would be inclined to be discrete.

Re: Tangential, but significant I think:

[cellio]

(light dawns) Oh! I thought tzniut referred specifically to the subset of modesty that was about dress; I didn't realize it was the whole category. Thank you.