Shabbat service times

[cellio]

Does this happen in other cities too? Can anyone explain why?

This week our main service (at 8:00) is mildly unappealing, so I thought to look for options. (That's fine.) My congregation also has a 6:00 service, but Shabbat right now starts around 7:30, so I'd rather find one a little later. The congregation where I go for weekdays has their Friday servies at 5:45 every week (save one per month). There's a newish (traditional egalitarian, unaffiliated) congregation in town I've never been to, so I looked them up -- also 5:45. Ok, what about the traditional (non-egalitarian) shul just down the street that I've been curious about? 6:30 -- ok, that's closer, but still a little surprising. Most of the explicitly-Orthodox congregations don't publish times (presumably it's candle-lighting time, give or take five minutes).

I'm surprised by the number of congregations that are doing services that far in advance of sunset. Reform congregations do not tend to feel as time-bound, so that doesn't surprise me, but I expected Conservative and "traditional" congregations to follow the sun. So do people in these congregations just add time to their Shabbat? I know you're allowed to start Shabbat early, but adding a couple hours (more in summer) is not always what you want to do. Or is the model that you go to services and get home before candle-lighting (which means you can drive, which makes the time hit less)? That feels odd too -- either you're doing the kabbalat shabbat service but not actually accepting Shabbat, or you're just doing mincha and going home, not doing a Shabbat service in community.

I do realize that in more traditional congregations the model is that the men go to services while the women stay home and prepare dinner. That's a model that doesn't work so well for a woman who prepares dinner (before Shabbat, of course) and goes to services. But I don't think that's all of it. Do the men in these congregations get home from work on Friday in time to prepare for Shabbat, walk to shul, and start a service two hours early, without being rushed or cutting out of work earlier than they would otherwise? Do they go to shul on their way home from work (and you just have to have done all your Shabbat prep that morning)? Something else?

Some of the congregations that have early services say they do it to make it easier for families with young kids to attend. That would argue against the "the men go and the women don't" model, but it still seems challenging to me. But then, I don't have kids.

Any other ideas for what might be going on here?

Comments

[mbarr.livejournal.com]

Well... there are a few things.

1) In your scenario, the shul goer comes home from work, drops their money, laptop, etc. Maybe takes some of the kids with them. Drives to shul. Davens. Accepts shabbos with Kabbalat Shabbat, and Maariv. Walks home w/ other people, saying good shabbos all the while.

The non shulgoer ligths candles when they are ready, possibly a few minutes before shul is over, maybe when the shul folk walk in. That's when the rest of the house takes shabbos in.

TANSTAAFL. There's no way to drive home after davening @ Friday night services that you think are valid, and not accept shabbos restrictions upon yourself.


(NOTE: below exists in a Ortho framework. )
2) Ortho women as a whole don't need to daven at specifc times- see time bound miztvot. (that's not to say they don't have to do so, but they aren't bound as much by the timings.)
Maariv is a special case. It was an optional thing that was added later on, and only men accepted the obligation It holds all kind of interesting precendents for egal folk, but that's beside the point. Women never did accept the obligation, and thus... don't have to daven it, per se.

(you might find this interesting: http://www.pardes.org.il/online_learning/weekly-talmud/2008-02-29.php )


Women do go to shul in large numbers in the modern ortho world, especially the more liberal side. It requires an Eruv to accomplish, though - No carrying includes babies & diaper bags. (Yes, there are ways for that to work without one.. but none of my friends would move to a place w/o an eruv, unless it was a *very* good reason.)

[ichur72.livejournal.com]

>> none of my friends would move to a place w/o an eruv, unless it was a *very* good reason

As someone with two very young children, I heartily second the sentiment.

I used to go to shul most Friday nights before my son was born. Now, I almost never go. It's just not practical (or polite) to take a 2.5-year-old and an 8-month-old who, well, act their age.

[cellio]

Oh, ok. You're not describing a work-around where the shul-goer defers accepting Shabbat. I didn't think that could work.

(So the shul-goer just leaves the car and reclaims it after Shabbat? That would work in some cities/neighborhoods, not in others.)

Women might have other reasons besides the davening to go to shul. (This woman goes for the davening, but I can imagine other reasons.) In particular, it might be the only way to be part of the community, especially if the community meme is "men do stuff together while women stay home with the kids". (I am not saying this is the meme everywhere.) In that sort of scenario, when do the women get a break and some adult conversation about torah?

[mbarr.livejournal.com]

Remember- this presupposes that someone was going to walk home from shul. The driving over only gives a few minute advantage, and probably isn't too much.
(It's a stretch - there are very few conservative shuls that have a large walking population. Almost no Reform shul w/ one. (There may be walking families @ a Reform one, but not the majority of the shul.))

The reason for the eruv lets folks leave the house, and socialze much easier on shabbos - it's not just the babies, but also being able to bring food from one house to another, or wine, etc.

Even in shuls where many of the women don't come to daven, there's frequently a bunch of folks that gather for kiddush, etc. It really depends on the population. There's a pretty big spectrum out there.

[cellio]

Yeah, the eiruv is important -- not just for kid stuff, but also for food (as you said) and the house key. (Yeah, I know about some of the key hacks that are used when there's no eiruv.)

Good point about the kiddush. Thanks for pointing that out.