daf bit: Sotah 33

[cellio]

The mishna lists several items that must be recited in the holy tongue (Hebrew) and not in the vernacular. The gemara includes the public reading of torah in this list. There is a dispute about the Sh'ma; Rabbi says it must be recited in Hebrew, but the Sages say it may be recited in any language the speaker understands. But if the torah may be read only in Hebrew, how can the Sh'ma be permitted in other languages? Because, the sages say, the torah there uses the word "hear", which overrides the general rule about reading torah. (It's not stated explicitly, but "hear" seems to also convey "comprehend".) (32b - 33a)

(A little farther down the page is the assertion that one should not say the t'filah in Aramaic because the ministering angels don't understand it (!), but this is disputed. Alas, I don't really understand the explanation that follows, which revolves around a "bat kol". I know what those words mean, but not what they have to do with ministering angels, so it's probably an idiom.)

Comments

[ichur72.livejournal.com]

"Bas kol" is an idiom meaning "a pronouncement from heaven", more or less.

[cellio]

Thanks!

[chaos-wrangler.livejournal.com]

So according to one opinion the ministering angels are intermediaries for shemona esre but not for kaddish?

Also, would that imply that they cannot understand most of the Talmud? *giggles* at the image of the rabbis talking about the angels "behind their backs" as it were.

[cellio]

So according to one opinion the ministering angels are intermediaries for shemona esre but not for kaddish?

Hmm, good point. I don't know what's up with that.

Also, would that imply that they cannot understand most of the Talmud? *giggles* at the image of the rabbis talking about the angels "behind their backs" as it were.

:-) On the other hand, the angels are a little closer to the source and maybe don't need to? The talmud is for men, not for angels, after all. A midrash from somewhere in Sanhedrin comes to mind, where Moshe ascends into heaven to receive the torah, the angels challenge God saying "how can you give your holy torah to men?", God tells Moshe to answer them, and Moshe starts running through commandments, asking how they could apply to angels. ("Are you capable of murder? Do you even have parents?" etc.) According to that opinion, the talmud is none of their business so it doesn't matter if they can understand it.