cellio | shiva and food

Entry tags:

shiva

shiva and food

Some things are not part of the formal Jewish learning process. I understand how to behave at a shiva house (house of mourning), and I've puzzeled out some of the rest by observation, but I'm curious: what typically happens with food? There are a couple facets to this (and I am blessed to not have first-hand knowledge yet).

The community generally provides meals for the family so they don't have to cook during that week. Sometimes there seems to be someone coordinating ("can you do Thursday?"), but either this is usually not the case or those people rarely call me. Assuming no one has yet emerged in this role, the behavior I've learned is to show up with something that can be reheated (and is freezer-safe) and hand it to whoever seems to be in charge. Correct?

(When there is someone in the coordinator role, how does that come about? Does the family ask someone? Does someone volunteer to the family? Does someone step up but work through the community or synagogue?)

The other facet is refreshments. This might be a function of the liberal Jewish community (the only one in which I've attended shiva minyanim), but it is almost always the case that the family has put out a spread -- cookies, cakes, fruit, and sometimes more-substantial food. So even if I'm not bringing a meal I always bring something to contribute to that. This (the spread, not the contribution) feels weird -- the family in mourning should not be forced into the role of host, I would think. Is this normal?

I've been wondering about these things for years, and just happened to remember to do something about it after a visit tonight. (Well, if sending questions out into the void counts as doing something. :-) )

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Not by any means halacha, but everything I've seen about Orthodox shiva says not only is the bereaved family not required to cook for visitors, they're forbidden to for at least the first 3 days — in part because they are focused on their grief and therefore likely to make mistakes in kashrut.

These are just my observations from staying at the shiva house after B's mum died:

The meals were provided by friends and family. While I don't remember anyone specifically co-ordinating this, I do remember that there was some sort of "shiva committee" from the shul that provided siddurim, etc.

We provided the coffee and tea but most of the nosh was brought by others. We provided some of the cups, etc, but also some of it was gifted. For a long time we didn't need to buy any disposable stuff for gatherings, we just raided the leftovers.

One dear friend of the family came every morning to help set up "breakfast" before davening. Those of us who were there but not actually sitting shiva did the errands and clean-up, so the actual mourners didn't have to do anything.

I guess my real answer would be it probably depends on the family and the community.

In the communities I'm familiar with (Cambridge), there's a chessed committee, the chair of which either is or appoints a point person for shiva food (also new parents, but that's not germane). The point person may ask friends for food to be brought, or email the minyan list asking for volunteers. I also don't expect there to be nosh around for davening, though possibly (informally) for people making shiva calls.

As Hopeness notes, depends on the family and the community.

My friends/family/larger community are generally either Reform or "culturally" Jewish, so my experience may well differ from yours... but generally what I've seen is that a family member will make sure there's at least a sandwich tray or something like that, and then other people bring or send food as they see fit.

When my grandmother died, IIRC my mother had a caterer come in for the first night of shiva; after that there was just always food other people had ordered for us.

I may be completely full of it, but I always assumed that at least one rationale for the shiva spreads was giving the bereaved something to distract them and refocus them on the living -- that the act of nurturing guests and loved ones is healing in and of itself.

(As an aside -- I don't know if anyone has warned you, but it's a big taboo to take food home with you from a shiva, even if there are more leftovers than the family could or would possibly want. Just so you know...)

That's pretty much how it works in Newton, too, except that there's usually Entenmann's and OJ put out after Shacharit.

After I spent the summer in a kollel of sort learning aveilut (laws of mourning) I saw my mother-in-law-to-be. She mentioned that one is not allowed to do anything with leftover shiva food other than donate to soup kitchen type places. I had distinctly not learned that, but apparently that is Conservative custom, so ok.

What I did learn in kollel: The first meal on the day of burial the mourners may not eat their own food, unless their neighbors are so stingy that they do not provide food (for which rabbis cursed the neighbors). THere are two opinions as to why this is done. One is that mourners would have survivor's guilt & also want to die, and choose starvation as a method. The other is that they would wish tobury their troubles in liquor and gluttony. After that the mourner may eat his/her own food, and may cook if s/he wants, but consolers are encouraged to provide food or the service of cooking.

In the communities that I have been involved with and from my own personal experience with my grandmother's death there are different traditions.

Generally my orthodox experience is that the first meal after the interrment is provided by the rabbi (in my congregation) usually egg and round roll (symbols of the full circle of life).

At the minyans that I have been to including my grandmother's food is generally organised by the broader family, if indeed there is food. The last minyan I went to was of a very religious man. There was no food for participants or the minyan. The mourners were served separately by the wider family.

Another that I have been to, the wider family did nothing and I made sure that I brought enough for the mourners - very close family friends. That tends to be the norm here. It is I guess simply understood, and provided that the usual kashrut of the family is observed that there is no issue bringing food or drink. Also spirits and soft drink tend to be the available beverages.

While I don't remember anyone specifically co-ordinating this, I do remember that there was some sort of "shiva committee" from the shul that provided siddurim, etc.

Good point -- we have one of those too. Perhaps I was thrown by not seeing any (known-to-me) members there last night -- they could well have sent stuff over earlier. This group focuses more on meals (I've mentioned the freezer maintained at the synagogue for this purpose), but maybe they also order in the fruit and baked good that are usually served to guests.

Thanks. We have such a committee too (I'd forgotten), which maintains a freezer and occasionally makes targetted calls. (For example, I was once asked to help out specifically because of my kashrut level; both I and the recipient keep a higher level than the norm for the congregation.)

Thanks. I don't think it ever would have occurred to me to take food home from a shiva (unless I was an immediate family member who didn't live at the shiva house), but I have seen people do that at the gatherings after non-Jewish funerals, so it's a good warning. (That feels tacky to me and I've never done it, but I've seen it.)

First meal: interesting; thanks for teaching me that.

Thanks. Yeah, the first meal is special, and also (in my experience) private, so I've never seen this directly.

Serving food to the attendees seems to have the effect of turning the shiva into a sort of party -- mostly you stand there with your cake and wine, or whatever, and talk to the other guests, because the mourners can only talk to so many people at once, and odds are you didn't know the deceased and therefore don't have stories to share. (This last might not be typical in tighter-knit communities, of course.) I don't know whether this cheers up the mourners or feels like an imposition to them.

Very similar at Kadimah-Toras Moshe (our shul).

When

mabfan was sitting shiva, I put bagels out for people for after Shacharit because we had multiple dozens of bagels by day two of the shiva and I knew we wouldn't be eating them all. And I put out occasional pastries and stuff if people brought it, but that was mostly so we wouldn't waste food, not because I felt I should be playing hostess.

Wholly off topic: Happy Birthday!

I was at one "mixed" shiva in the past few years (observant/orthodox* friend of ours with most of the rest of the family non-observant/orthodox) and I noticed the clash in expectations re food. As far as I could tell, the o/o expectation was that visitors/extended family/community would provide food for the mourners (and probably spouses, kids, anyone else staying at the house) but either nothing or possibly some drinks and maybe snacks (if there was too much food of a snacky sort) would be put out for the visitors. The non-o/o expectation seemed to be that visitors would be fed, although it wasn't entirely clear to me who was supposed to arrange for the food. (It probably didn't help that the deceased has been the only member of the family still living in the local community, so the mourners staying in the house weren't so well known/connected with the locals).

*I've found that it's not always easy to tell which philosophy of Judaism someone follows based on their actions, so I'm categorizing based partly on what I saw (e.g. who worried how much about kashrut) and partly on what my friend told me about the family, and I wanted to be clear that I'm blurring the philosophy/observance distinction in a way that may mess with the correctness of the observations.

Thanks!

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

shiva and food

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

expections

no subject