daf bit: Gittin 76

[cellio]

The mishna teaches: if a man says to his wife "this is your get (bill of divorce) if I do not return within twelve months" and he dies in that year, it is not a valid get and she is not divorced. However, if he says "this is your get from now if I do not return", and he dies, it is a valid get. The mishna later makes clear that a get's "effective date" must fall within the lifetime of the man issuing it. (76b)

I have heard anecdotally, though I don't know how common it was, that men would sometimes write gets before setting out on dangerous journeys, lest they be killed but that not be provable (e.g. sea voyages). That would be to avoid the problem of the agunah, the woman who cannot remarry because she has no get (and it cannot be proven that her husband is dead). I suspect that the mishna here is discussing that sort of case, though it does not say so explicitly. (Why else would someone set up a time-delay divorce?)

Comments

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

See also David, Uriah, and Batsheva

[ginamariewade.livejournal.com]

I just read "Rashi's Daughters: Miriam" by Maggie Anton (good book, btw). She put some effort into her scholarship and it shows.
There are several male characters in the book who are merchants who travel far away to obtain goods to sell at home, they have sort of "standing gets" that their wives keep just in case.

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

I would hope that things would be handled reasonably in the edge case of LATER discovery that the man *had* provably died before the effective date of the get, but the discovery was made after things had happened on the assumption that the get was valid.

[cellio]

I believe that is how they would rule. Ex post facto some things can be accepted that would not be permitted had you set out to do them. An example of this from kashrut: if you accidentally dribble some milk into your pot of beef stew and the quantity is less than one part in sixty, you can still eat it. You may not, however, make a very-slightly-cream sauce from the outset.

Halacha is concerned with what is correct, but also with what will cause real hardship.

[nobble.livejournal.com]

Hi Monica!

On the whole Ketubah thang....I'm having a civil ceremony next year, my partner isn't jewish but I want the trappings...do you know of a decent source of civil 'ketubah' words? I've seen a couple of them around the traps nothing has lept out.

[goljerp]

First of all, Congratulations.

I don't know if a "civil ketubah" really makes that much sense -- it's basically a prenup, just one in aramaic. If you wanted "jewish trappings", some things that I've seen at civil ceremonies have been:

* Chuppah (wedding canopy). A friend of mine who's into crafts spent about a year creating her own; if this isn't the kind of thing you're into, I'm sure you can get one pre-made
* Breaking a glass at the end (or a lightbulb - louder pop). Just a warning: be sure to get a *fragile* glass, and step on the open part
* Wine during the ceremony -- have someone do kiddush during the ceremony

[cellio]

Hmm, good question. I know I've seen web sites with collections of texts, but I don't recall where.

A ketubah is a contract in keeping with torah. Since torah does not bind your partner, this is necessarily going to be rather different. Have you considered creating your own document -- your own vows, or some other text that resonates for both of you -- and having that read at the ceremony and nicely calligraphed for your home?