daf bit: Kiddushin 41

[cellio]

The mishna teaches: a man may betroth a woman directly or through an agent, and a woman may be betrothed directly or through an agent. A man may give his daughter in marriage when she is a na'arah (literally a young girl) but not when she is a minor. The gemara expands this last point: a man must wait until his daughter grows up and says "I want So-and-so". (41a)

I had previously thought that a na'arah was an undifferentiated young girl; now I wonder what the precise definition is with respect to "minor", which I take to be "before the age of bat mitzvah". I think it might be past time for me to acquire a good talmudic dictionary/glossary; any recommendations?

(Today's daf is 43, which is in the middle of a long discussion of agency based on this mishna, which was too complicated to try to summarize or excerpt for a daf bit.)

Comments

[kmelion.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Na'arah means once she's hit puberty?

[ticklethepear.livejournal.com]

I was thinking along the same lines - onset of menarche?

I read a study about adolescents in Morocco, and the authors chose the age of first mensturation for girls and the age when boys start fasting for Ramadan as rough guides to determining when adolescence begins.

[fauxklore]

My recollection is that a girl becomes a na'arah one year before bat mitzvah, but I can't for the life of me remember why I think that.

[cellio]

That's consistent with this context. It just doesn't track with my previous impression -- not that I can cite a pedigree for my previous impression, mind, so this isn't an argument against this interpretation.

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

Na'arut (the state of being a na'arah) begins upon both reaching the age of 12 and having 2 pubics hairs (both neccesary conditions, neither sufficient.) Except there is the following principle put forth by either Rava or Rabba (because those aren't easily confused at all): Anyone who arrives at the age of adulthood is assumed to possess the physical signs of adulthood, namely hairs. Keeps things far more modest as we don't need parents or witnesses to attest that such and such 12 yo girl or 13 yo boy has the neccesary hairs. There is a machloket (debate) regarding whether na'arut ends 6 months after it begins in all cases, or at 12 years and 6 months assuming hairs have appeared. Prior to na'arut, a girl is a katana (a minor, not a Japanese sword), and afterwards she is a bogeret or gedola (an adult).

reference recommendation

[chaos-wrangler.livejournal.com]

I think it might be past time for me to acquire a good talmudic dictionary/glossary; any recommendations?

Adin Steinsaltz wrote a modern Hebrew translation of the Talmud and later an English one.* In addition to the translations of individual sections of the Talmud he also wrote (and here's my recommendation) a one-volume "The Talmud: A Reference Guide" which includes sections on methodology, terminology, and "Halakhic Concepts and Terms". I got my copy years ago at one of the standard bookstores in NY (i.e. not a specialty Judaica store), and the publisher is Random House, so it ought to be fairly easy to find. The one issue I sometimes have with it is figuring out the transliteration of Hebrew/Aramaic words in order to look them up alphabetically in English.

*The main reason I've heard that his translation isn't used by everyone is that he doesn't follow the now-standard page layout, so you can't just look up e.g. page 42a, 6th line, 2nd word the way you can with almost any other edition currently available.