daf bit: Bava Metzia 19

[cellio]

Rabbah b. Bar Chanah once lost a bill of divorce in the beit midrash. When it was found, he said to the finders: there is a distinguishing mark that shows it is mine, and if you don't accept that, I would know my document by sight. The document was returned to him. The g'mara teaches that a distinguishing mark is sufficient identification of a lost object under biblical law, while recognizing one's property on sight is acceptable proof only for a torah scholar, whose word can be trusted. For this reason, Rabbah did not know which reason applied when his document was returned. (19a)

(Torah scholars get special privilege? I wonder how they reconcile that with the torah's various instructions to treat people equally regardless of circumstances.)

This story is tangential to a larger discussion of lost documents, but it does make me wonder: doesn't a divorce document contain the names of the spouses and issuers? Wouldn't that be a de-facto distinguishing mark?

Comments

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

Tractate Gittin frequently assumes that in one city there are two men named Yosef ben Shimon (or anything else presumably) who have wives with the same names.

Ordinarily, "If you let me see it, I'll be able to tell you if it is mine" is an invitation to deception. Most people must present signs (some descriptive details) before seeing the lost item. I guess we assume Torah scholars wouldn't lie, but other people might lie in such a case.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Tractate Gittin frequently assumes that in one city there are two men named Yosef ben Shimon (or anything else presumably) who have wives with the same names.

A foolish question from a ganze shiksa, but is it perhaps more likely that at this (unspecified) time period, few if any people other than rabbis or torah scholars could *read* the (names on the) document?

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Your icon is the most beautiful nonhuman thing I've seen today. Wow.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Thanks, but I can't take credit. It's by lougheed.

BTW, we know so many people in common we've almost certainly met in RL. Will you be at Balticon?

[cellio]

s it perhaps more likely that at this (unspecified) time period, few if any people other than rabbis or torah scholars could *read* the (names on the) document?

I'd say that's likely. But that doesn't mean you need special rules for the owner and finder; it just means you need a literate person to ajudicate.

(browngirl is right; that's a lovely userpic.)

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

One could say that everyone _is_ being treated equally, in that they are being treated according to their trustability rather than their social position or economic state. That certain social positions which imply certain trustabilities exist is separate (or abstracted out).

Alternately, it might be akin to something you mentioned a very long time ago when presented with a saying that the person who prays the Amidah thrice a day will be accepted to heaven--such close and constant association with a highly virtuous thing causes the person to understand it so well that they become virtuous themselves through immersion. Or, to phrase it pseudorhetorically, how could someone who spends all their time studying torah fail to internalize it to the extent that they can blithely lie and cheat and steal?

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Alas, I won't be at Balticon this year. One of these years, I hope.