TiVo update

[cellio]

I don't understand why some things along the way didn't work, but I found a set of wiring that gets signal to the TV. (DTV box to TiVo works with the connector that has a pin in the middle that you screw on; what's that called? But doesn't work with composite video. TiVo to TV works with S-video (trumping DVD player) or composite video, but the latter only to the connectors on the front of the TV. Beats me why; the connectors on the back of the TV were supporting a VCR without problems before.)

There isn't a way to program the TiVo to know about digital channels, though. With the DTV box turned on and the TiVo manually set to channel 3, I get the signal I expect (and can change channels on the DTV box). The tech-support person I spoke with tonight told me that this will not work tomorrow, though I'm not sure why that should be. (I stressed that I was not talking about analog broadcasts.) We'll know soon enough, and there's still a VCR in the system to pick up Saturday night's Pushing Daisies. If it does work, I've got the functionality of my VCR on a hard drive instead of on tape, which is a win.

The support person told me that because my box (Philips series 1) will not work post-transition, I qualify for a special deal: a new TiVo for $99 and a lifetime contract for $299 (or $12.95/month with a 3-year commitment, but that'd be dumb). The support person couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me whether a TiVo can work without a contract. Without a contract can I manually program recordings (like with a VCR), forgoing the friendly advice, searches, and directory listings? Or is a TiVo without a service contract just a brick? (Or would it work but I'd hate it for some reason?) The $99 box with the digital tuner, Netflix interface, and whatever else comes with it sounds interesting; I'm not so sure about the service contract. (TiVo evangelists, that's your cue. :-) )

Comments

[dragonazure.livejournal.com]

We've got a Series 2 sitting in the box (since we cut the cable service it isn't much use). I think you do have to sign up for service in order to use it to schedule recordings, but I can't confirm that....

ealdthryth noted that ours isn't high-definition, though.

[cellio]

I just manually scheduled a recording by date/time/channel on the series-1 TiVo. (It's channel 3, as everything will be without an upgrade. That might be fine.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

That was my understanding too: a TiVo without a service contract is basically a VCR, as long as you had a service contract at some point in the past (so it could initialize). You won't get any more software updates, but since every update in the last year has been a downgrade to a more ad-laden system, that's not a bad thing.

You might want to disable recording of suggestions, since it probably still has two weeks of guide data in its cache (and it would just be recording static).

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Danger: rant ahead.

I qualify for a special deal: a new TiVo for $99

You'll probably be better off with that than with trying to get an older machine to play nice with the new regime. (Didn't you say you could transfer the previous owner's lifetime contract? That should be cheaper than a new one.)


Or is a TiVo without a service contract just a brick?

Bingo. There is NO way to program it manually. You select a show to record & it sets the time & date by consulting its downloaded info.


There isn't a way to program the TiVo to know about digital channels, though.

You may need a separate tuning adapter box and/or cable card to get digital; we did. Your cable company should be able to figure it out eventually. (It took Cox Cable 2 weeks & 5 visits. When we asked why their installers weren't better trained, we got "Why don't you just rent one of our DVRs?") But they accidentally sent us someone competent in the end, & since then, TiVo mostly works fine.


Steve & I only became TiVo users kicking & screaming. We had a DVR with an onboard hard drive & a very simple interface for burning recordings to DVD. (We'd mostly do this to tide us over until the official DVD came out, & also for my parents who can't get cable but like a lot of shows on the History Channel, Discovery Channel, etc.) You could also edit recordings to keep just part of a show or eliminate commercials (neither of which is possible on TiVo). The TV Guide brand downloaded info (subscription included with purchase) never worked very well, but we were perfectly capable of recording things manually.

This DVR died in January & to our horror, we found that we couldn't replace it. We scoured the internet & checked every store in town, but apparently pressure from networks & advertisers led manufacturers to quit making them. The only model left on the market couldn't record digital channels, which account for about 3/4 of what we record.

So we sprang for a TiVo & a contract. Fortunately, there was a sale on. We also got a piggyback hard drive that greatly expanded its storage capacity. This unit is now bulging at the seams, largely with stuff I recorded for my folks.

Theoretically, we can record from the TiVo to our remaining DVR (a dual VCR/DVR designed for dubbing but with no hard drive). Now, Steve & I are both pretty tech-savvy & have several decades of experience in such things between us. But we have not yet managed to successfully record from the TiVo to the DVR. (Unsuccessfully, yes -- the image is doubled & the sound fades in & out.) The TiVo manual & website provide only the sketchiest of directions & no troubleshooting guidance whatsoever.

We don't exactly consider ourselves happy members of the TiVo family.

OTOH, if all you want to do with your recordings is "watch & wipe," TiVo works fine & has useful features. The Season Pass lets you set a repeating recording once & TiVo will find it even if the day & time change. And rewinding live TV is addictive -- now I catch myself wanting to do it while I'm listening to radio. But TiVo is the AV equivalent of an idiot light: it does everything for you, but makes it hard-to-impossible to do things your way.

Our epic now has a sequel. Last month, a friend posted on his LJ that his DVR like our old one died, so he walked into Frye's & came out with a new Motorola one. We were of course rather croggled at that, but it seems to be a brand new model -- & he tells us that it gets digital channels just fine. However, when we researched it, we found that it's still the Last of Its Kind & has a known glitch that can wipe the slate of scheduled recordings when it automatically updates the time twice a day. But given our TiVo woes, I'll be more than happy to reset the time manually if need be to get recording functionality back. (Automatic time updates never worked on the old one, but the clock kept time just fine without it.)

At least I know what I’m getting for my birthday in 2 weeks. *g* We’ll use the TiVo for things we know we’re going to watch & wipe, & save the burning unit for hard copy fodder. But if we could have replaced the old DVR when it quit, we’d never have bothered with TiVo & we may get rid of it once the service contract expires.

[anastasiav.livejournal.com]

If your goal in all of this is to burn shows to DVD, and you have Wifi, one solution would be to install Tivo Desktop on your computer, use that to transfer shows from your Tivo to your computer, then burn from there.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

We do have WiFi, but we were not aware of this option. Thanks very much, we'll check it out!

[osewalrus.livejournal.com]

Noncompatibility is a feature. You've been in IT long enough to sense "product cycle" on a compatibility issue.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Me too. What frosts me isn't even that; it's sensing "Why on earth would users want to do things any way but our way?"

[cellio]

There are two flavors of this, planned obsolescence (we know now that we could make this more future-proof but we're not going to so you'll buy the next one) and lack of foresight (things went in what direction after we made this?). I wonder which was the case back in series-1 times for TiVo.

But I still don't understand the mechanism. With digital channels I can set my TV to channel 3, set the channel on the DTV box, and get signal. The TV does not care about the origin of that signal beyond the DTV box; it doesn't know from digital versus analog. What in the design would cause the TiVo to behave differently in that regard? Yes, without the newer box and contract I won't get all the useful features, but it sure seems to me that the TiVo I have could be treated exactly the same way I would otherwise treat my VCR. The support person could not explain this to me, which isn't terribly surprising.

This morning I have digital signal on channel 3 on the TiVo. I don't know what time the transition is supposed to kick in. I'll check again after Shabbat.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

it sure seems to me that the TiVo I have could be treated exactly the same way I would otherwise treat my VCR

As far as I can tell, the currently available models are purposefully designed to explicitly prevent that. Similarly, the expansion hard drive -- the only model that will work -- splits everything you record so part is on the TiVo & part is on the separate drive to prevent users from sharing recordings by moving the piggyback drive to another TiVo.

there's also the consumer cheapness ceiling

[brokengoose.livejournal.com]

There are two flavors of this, planned obsolescence (we know now that we could make this more future-proof but we're not going to so you'll buy the next one) and lack of foresight (things went in what direction after we made this?). I wonder which was the case back in series-1 times for TiVo.

There's a third flavor that comes up often with Tivo: We could offer something cool and future-proof, but it's too expensive for anyone to buy. The original series 3 had a ton of cool features. It was also $800 before the subscription. It didn't sell well. They ended up dropping some of the features and dropping the price.

Some of the same story even with the older units. These things are already more expensive than their competitors. How expensive can they make them before people give up and go away.

For what it's worth, Series 1 Tivos are very easily hackable. People have figured out how to hack them to use DTV boxes (http://www.gratisoft.us/tivo/dtv.html).

Re: there's also the consumer cheapness ceiling

[cellio]

Ah, that's a good point.

Thanks for the hacking link. (I wish their link to a hack FAQ weren't broken, as I'm obviously new to that world. Like... I log into my TiVo, and acquire root access, how? Yeah, I know there's a Linux box in there, but some additional configuration info seems required.)

[anastasiav.livejournal.com]

I am a Tivo evangelist. I would absolutely go with the $99+$299 deal.

At one time some Tivos would work (slightly) without a contract, but a lot of the features were disabled (including the guide) so you need to program all recordings manually and there was a nag screen telling you that you hadn't signed up for service.

(Ah, Wikipedia clarifies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo): "TiVo hardware can still be used as a basic digital recorder, recording by date, time, and channel, without a subscription: specifically, any Series1 which shipped with software revision 1.3 or earlier, as well as Toshiba and Pioneer standalone units, which include TiVo Basic. Nearly all Series1 units originally shipped with 1.3 or an earlier release, however, late in the life of the Series1 some units did ship with 2.0 and those units require a subscription. All other standalone TiVo systems require a subscription to function. All DirecTiVo units require an active DirecTV subscription to record new content.") Of course, I don't know how this all interacts with the digital transition.

Knowing you, I'd also remind you that if you do get the service, call them to have the "Anonymous Viewing Information and Diagnostic Information" blocked.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Ours is an HD (which they called Series 3 for a while), so without a contract it's still a brick. I'm a bit surprised that things were ever otherwise.

[cellio]

How long is a "lifetime" TiVo likely to be good in practice? There have been three editions so far but I think this is the first one that (according to them) just plain won't work any more. Do you think I can safely assume at least 5 years?

Thanks for the tip on the data collection; didn't know about that.

[anastasiav.livejournal.com]

Our first Tivo lasted a little more than six years. When it died last April, for $149 we were able to get a brand new Tivo (dual tuner, an upgrade from our old box) and full transfer of our lifetime service. ("Lifetime" is defined by Tivo as lifetime of the box, not your lifetime.)

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Data collection seems be an integral part of TiVo's design. It doesn't just monitor what you record, it also notes variables such as how long after something's recorded you watch it. Reportedly, one reason Dollhouse was renewed despite lackluster ratings is that so many TiVo owners faithfully watched it within a week of recording it.

This is another reason we resisted TiVo, but we decided not to opt out of the monitoring because our tastes are decidedly non-mainstream and a lot of the shows we watch need all the ratings help they can get. Like Dollhouse. ;)

[cellio]

That's a good point. My viewing habits are atypical too; I hadn't thought about the positive effects of that.

(And OT... what a great icon!)

Connectors

[tc-tick.livejournal.com]

Since noone answered your first question --the connector with the wire center pin and screw-on connector is called an "F" connector -- 75 ohm designed for RG-59 or RG-6 type coaxial cable (coax). There is a push-on version of this connector as well just to confuse the issue. The other connector with the 1/8" center pin that pushes on is called an "RCA" connector and sometimes a 'phono' (phonograph) connector -- not to be confused with the 1/4" or 1/8" phono plug. The "S" video plug is a 4-pin DIN connector. Confused yet? There are an extraordinary number of different styles and varieties -- and an even larger set of inter-series converters.

[geekosaur]

True DVR unhappiness is FiOS; I don't know yet if it's cost effective vs. annoyance to get a cablecard and replace the crappy Motorola DVR with something sensible. (No disk storage to speak for; unexpandable even if you replace the drive yourself; its ideas about how to record things are naive at best, and "only new episodes" is completely broken, being based on "new" meaning "not already on the tiny hard drive".)

[geekosaur]

...but just looked and renting a cablecard + TiVo service is cheaper than the STB (and far more functional and holds more). But then there's renting or buying the TiVo box. sigh

(don't mind me, just geeking)