daf bit: Zevachim 85

[cellio]

There seems to be a general rule that once something is brought up to the altar (as an offering) you don't remove it (specifically, it does not descend). The mishna lists several exceptions to this rule, all of which seem to be things that should not have been brought up in the first place. This list includes: the residue of the omer (which is a wave-offering -- you bring it to the temple to acknowledge God, not to burn it), the two loaves, the showbread, the residue of the meal-offering, incense (which is offered on a different altar, not the main one), and assorted animal byproducts (like wool) if they weren't attached to the animal at the time. (85b)

The g'mara does not give any explanation of why somebody might bring these things up, and moves on fairly quickly to the next mishna, which is about things that accidentally fly off of the altar.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

I almost do not want to ask about "things that fly off the altar". Perhaps live birds are acceptable sacrifices...

[cellio]

Unintended projectiles (coals are mentioned), not flapping wings. At least in this mishna. Sorry for the confusion.

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

Coal? I would not think that that would count as part of the offering, but flying coals would be dangerous. Interesting.

[cellio]

My vocabulary isn't good enough to confirm that "coal" is the right translation, but in general I trust Soncino on such things.

If a coal flies off you don't put it back, by the way. Whether stray animal parts get put back depends on the time of day.

(I'm not helping, am I? :-) )

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

On the contrary, you are. It is always interesting to hear your discussions. Whether some rules make sense or not.. well, I have yet to meet the perfect philosophy.

Different times of the day. Dare I guess that it is considered proper during the night?

[cellio]

Surprisingly, the boundary is at midnight -- before midnight you return the animal part back, and after midnight you don't. The reason I find this surprising is that this is not a new-day boundary; the day begins at sundown. Midnight does show up as a time limit for other things, like the end of the Pesach seder (which is based on when you could eat the lamb until). I don't know if there's a governing principle about when a boundary is midnight versus sunset (new day) versus dawn.