daf bit: Menachot 57

[cellio]

The g'mara on today's daf discusses the prohibition of cooking on Shabbat. If a man placed meat on the coals on Shabbat and it was roasted, he is liable. How much has to be cooked? After discussion about whether it has to be cooked through or only on one side to count, Raba said that if it was roasted in one spot the size of a dried fig that is sufficient. There is further discussion in which either Raba or Rabina said that if it is roasted in two or three spots that together add up to the size of a dried fig, that too is a violation -- it doesn't have to be a single area. Rabina then compares this to boring a hole on Shabbat, which is prohibited regardless of the size of the hole, but the difference in these cases is not addressed here. (57a)

I had assumed that any amount of cooking would be prohibited. Of course, this might not be the last word on the subject.

Comments

[talvinamarich.livejournal.com]

So, what if he lays the meat on the coals before sundown? If he removes it and eats it on Shabbat (after the sun goes down), is he clear? What if he turns it over after sundown?

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

This is called sh'hiya. There are rabbinic rules about it which are at least slightly complex.

[cellio]

So, what if he lays the meat on the coals before sundown?

Talmudically, I'm not sure. Halacha today is that you can't; you can keep food warm that is already cooked, but you can't drop it onto the fire a minute before Shabbat and eat later.

This is what almost all observant Jews I know do -- cook the meal Thursday night or Friday afternoon, then set up some warming device on a timer. For example, Shabbat morning I take the crock-pot liner or pan out of the fridge and put it in/on a heating unit, which a timer will turn on after I've left. Or I could leave something in the oven on very low heat. There is a device ("blech") for keeping things warm on the stove-top too, but I'm not comfortable leaving a flame running through Shabbat (gas stove, not electric).

We've got work-arounds, in other words. :-) But the core prohibition of cooking on Shabbat is maintained. Keeping things warm isn't cooking.

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

I had assumed that any amount of cooking would be prohibited.

Most of the Shabbat prohibitions have a minimum amount d'oraita. In theory, if you lined up enough yidden and each wrote one letter, they could write out all of War and Peace on shabbat and only be in violation of a rabbinic fence.

[cellio]

True enough. I was surprised when I learned that the prohibition on writing is against writing two letters.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Cooking is an issue, but because of flame cooking the food. It is less clear if it is cooked by the sun. Most people won't do that either, but there's definitely room for discussion on that (such as here (http://vbm-torah.org/archive/shabbat66/13shabbat.htm)).

[cellio]

Huh, interesting -- flame and its accomplice electricity, but maybe not passive solar cooking. I never thought about that.

[eub.livejournal.com]

Sometimes the rabbis make me giggle.