daf bit: Chullin 18

[cellio]

The g'mara discusses a time when R. Zera went from his home to Eretz Yisrael and ate food that was considered kosher there but not by his home community. The g'mara argues that when one arrives in a town he must accept the restrictions of the place he has entered and those of the place he has left. The discussion then clarifies: this is true only when going from town to town in Babylon or from town to town in Eretz Yisrael, or when going from Israel to Babylon, but it does not apply when going from Babylon to Israel. R. Ashi says even in this last case if the person intends to return (which R. Zera did not).

I am guessing, but do not know, that the halacha today is not like this. Once you have a tradition (which you probably got from your family) I think you pretty much have it forever, right?

Comments

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

The obvious counterexample: The usually stated (and perhaps only) reason those outside of Israel keep 2 days of yom tov now that there is a fixed calendar and instant communications is because it is a custom we accepted from our families. However, if we move to Israel permanently, that goes away (with edge cases in between debated).

At some point in the last century or so, custom went from being primarily based on location to being based on person. As a result of this, Rav Moshe Feinstein wrote extensively on this topic, often seeming to disagree with his predecesors, but some contend that this was due to the changing situation.

But really, there exist both local custom and personal customs. I live in a town that announces Shabbat ends 50 minutes after shkia (sunset). When I am there, I keep shabbat until then, but outside of town I keep shabbat until 42 minutes after shkia. Since the latter is a personal/family custom, even if I went somewhere that kept a shorter amount of time (unlikely nowadays, but theoretically possible) I would wait until 42 minutes, so in that regard I suppose it is like this bit in the Talmud.

[baron-steffan.livejournal.com]

May a not-very-observant reader ask a dumb question?

The business of two-day holidays in the Diaspora, that I understand. But what about the one-day holidays in Israel? Has it always been that way? Or was it a matter of "since we have been dispersed, we do this this way *everywhere*", and then when the State of Israel began, we went back to one-day *there*? I don't imagine it was the latter case, but I suppose it's possible. And if it *wasn't* the latter case, and it has *always* been one day in Eretz Yisrael, what was the definition of what was Eretz Yisrael before civil authorities declared what was and what wasn't? If you were in Gaza, or the West Bank, before 1948, did you celebrate one day or two? What about now?

[geekosaur]

It's even more complex than that: in a shiur by Rav Ezra Bick of Yeshivat Har Etzion, he noted that quite a few Ashkenazic poskim who made aliyah have decided that m'dinat Yisrael is not Eretz Yisrael, so their followers must do 2-day holidays even in Israel. There's even an OU of Israel to certify Israeli foods as kosher by general U.S. Ashkenazic rulings for these communities.

[cellio]

That's a good question. I had assumed that it was always one day in Eretz Yisrael, regardless of the presence of any modern state by that name, and two days outside of those borders, but now I'm not so sure.

I have the strong impression that "Eretz Yisrael" is defined by biblical borders (which ones?) and not by modern political boundaries, though.

Do I have any readers in the West Bank who can comment on current practice?

Not a visitor, an Oleh

[(Anonymous)]

R' Zeira moved to Eretz Yisrael. He, under the name R' Ze'ira, is frequently cited in the "Jerusalem" Talmud.

Ideally customs are by location, not family. It doesn't seem so today because we are in a transition generation -- families came from multiple locations and we haven't yet congealed into new communities with standardized custom.

This means that when R' Zeira/Ze'ira made aliyah, he should have adopted the customs of his new community,

Re: Not a visitor, an Oleh

[cellio]

Thanks for filling in those details for me.