daf bit: Bechorot 17

[cellio]

The torah tells us that the first-born male of livestock belongs to the kohanim. A mishna on today's daf says: if a ewe who has never before given birth has two male offspring (twins) and their heads both come out at the same time, what do we do? R. Yose of Galilee says both belong to the kohein, but the sages say one belongs to the kohein and the other to the owner. R. Tarfon says the kohein chooses the better one; R. Akiva says we compromise between them, and the Israelite leaves the second one to pasture until it acquires a blemish (which makes it unsuitable as an offering for the kohein, so then the Israelite can eat it). (17a)

Comments

[magid.livejournal.com]

... and if both heads come out at the same time, the ewe is pretty darned unhappy, especially since it is, by definition, a first birth. I wonder how likely this is in practice (without killing the ewe....).

[hrj.livejournal.com]

Funny, I had exactly the same thought!

[cellio]

Yeah, I also wondered if this is even possible. I wonder if this is entangled with doubt -- you didn't see the birth and don't know which came first so you assume both came out together? Not sure.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Or it could be of the reductio ad absurdem possibilities they sometimes contemplate, the boundary cases making everything else easier/clearer.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Do you ever get the feeling that at least some of these cases were discussed very late on Shabbat or a holiday, and after several glasses of wine?

[magid.livejournal.com]

Late at night, sure. Alcohol, probably.

[cellio]

I think they were ahead of their time. Just because the phrase "speculative fiction" hadn't been invented yet doesn't mean "what if?" questions never came up. They just take a different form with the rabbis. :-)

(And I can totally believe that some of these arguments started with late-night conversation after the Shabbat/holiday meal...)

[chaos-wrangler.livejournal.com]

There's a rule that people weren't allowed to ask for halachic decisions after Friday night dinner because it was assumed that the rabbis drank wine... they had to wait until the next morning.

[ichur72.livejournal.com]

I can see it happening under rare circumstances. Sheep are born nose- and forefeet-first, and if you have a case of monochorionic/monoamniotic identical twins, the two heads could make for the exit at the same time assuming that they are lined up right. I can't imagine this happening often, but it isn't completely outside the realm of plausibility.