daf bit: Mai Chanukah? (Shabbat 21)

[cellio]

Chanukah, unlike the major holidays, has only a couple pages of talmud devoted to it. In honor of the season I'm breaking from the daf yomi today to teach something from there.

The g'mara has been discussing appropriate wicks and oil for kindling Shabbat lights, and then brings a dispute about whether the same restrictions apply for the Chanukah lights. The problem with using lesser materials for Shabbat is that the lights might go out and you would be tempted to relight them. R. Huna says the same applies during Chanukah; if the light goes out you must attend to it, and (implication) even when it is not Shabbat you should kindle lights that will stay lit. R. Hisda says you can use these materials during Chanukah except Shabbat, and you do not need to attend them -- if they go out, they go out. R. Zera said in Rab's name: you can use them during Chanukah even on Shabbat; it does not require attention and you do not make use of the light. (21b)

The Shabbat lights serve a practical purpose: you use them to see by. The Chanukah lights serve a different purpose: they are to publicize the miracle, and you do not make use of them. (For example, you don't sit down and read by the light of the chanukiyah.) R. Zera, and perhaps R. Hisda, seems to hold that since you can't use the light anyway, you won't feel the urge to relight it if it goes out. You don't have to publicize the miracle all night long, just for a portion of it.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

The Chanukah lights serve a different purpose: they are to publicize the miracle, and you do not make use of them.

That's fascinating. In that, in simply seeing the lights, they no doubt provide some illumination or direction so one is in effect using them. There have no doubt been a couple of debates about the level of use that is allowed (as you mention).

[magid.livejournal.com]

It's part of the reason that while I sometimes take a moment to look at the candles with all other lights off, the rest of the time I have other lights on.

[cellio]

I like to look at the lights in the dark (especially on the last night, wow!), but I don't use them for anything. I just look.

[cellio]

There are probably debates about that, yes. There is also one mitigation.

You know how the chanukiyah (Chanukah menorah) has eight lights, plus there's one extra one (usually higher than the rest)? That ninth one is not a Chanukah light. It's the shamash (helper). It's the candle you use to light all the rest (you don't use a match directly). Since that's not a Chanukah light, it has no restrictions.

So if you're walking through your otherwise-dark dining room and you might be using some of that light to not walk into things, maybe you're just using the shamash. Not that you should rely on this where it's clearly not true, of course; this is meant for unintended, passing uses, not sitting down to read or do embroidery or the like.

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

Huh. I'd always wondered why there were nine candles for eight days. That makes sense and gives a nice out for the simpler uses of the light.

Not using a match directly for all the candles sounds like a great way to get wax all over the place, but matches were no doubt harder to find back then. (not that they aren't basically impossible to find freely in California where smoking is outlawed in restaurants...)

[cellio]

I haven't seen free matches in ages, even before smoking restrictions got tighter here. I guess folks realized the advertising wasn't bringing them much. :-)

Most people I know either have a chukiyah with a base or put it on a plate to catch drips. That said, if you get the 69-cents-a-box cheapo candles at the grocery store you get lots of drips, but if you buy the nicer ones (at a much higher price, of course), they're often dripless. (I don't know if the freezer trick would help with the cheap ones; they're really cheap. They feel different; I don't know if that's just the manufacturing process or if they've found some cheaper-than-wax filler to add in.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

Sigh. Guess it's a good thing I decided to stop collecting matchbooks then. A few hundred should last my lifetime in any case (especially should there be a fire!).

I don't know of the freezer trick, but do know that beeswax candles are pretty good until you get the core too hot.