Shabbat is when now?

[cellio]

I had not previously heard that Samoa is moving across the international date line this week, meaning that they will go from 11:59PM Thursday to 12:00AM Saturday, skipping Friday. This raises an interesting question for any Jews living there -- when is Shabbat?

According to one answer there, now it'll be Sunday -- we count days, not secular designations.

(Testing mobile posting.)

Comments

[dagonell.livejournal.com]

I had this wonderful visual image of all the Samoans jumping into the water, each using one hand to lift the country out of the water and using the other hand to dog-paddle over to its new location. :) This may be an academic question, are there any Orthodox Jews in Samoa that would be affected? -- Dagonell

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

Cool. Time to buy a new atlas!

But as to your halachic question: most people in that part of the world hold by a "halachic" date line that is independent of the Int'l Date Line: either 90deg west of Jerusalem or 180deg away from Jerusalem. That works out to mostly the same as the secular week, but Japan (for the 90-deg) and Hawaii (for the 180-deg) can be different.

For those who keep "Shabbat is when the secular calendar says it's Saturday", though, I'd imagine they'd have a problem.

I love this stuff.

[magid.livejournal.com]

According to this BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16351377), they moved across the date line in the other direction 119 years ago, so perhaps they're just moving into standard alignment again, and had Shabbat off a day until now?

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

A new atlas and a great time to invest in map-making companies was my first thought too. Just don't buy their stock on the 30th...

[cellio]

There doesn't appear to be a community of Shabbat-observant Jews there. (It wouldn't just be Orthodox who care, BTW.)

[cellio]

Many years ago I saw a globe in a catalogue that I now regret not buying: it was magnetic, and the purchase included a subscription -- when borders change they'd mail you a patch for that part of the world. It'd be neat just for the novelty value.

Somebody wrote about the halachic date line, which I don't completely understand yet. I gather that Shabbat happens every seven days, and if that day is now called Sunday instead of Saturday, that's no problem as far as Shabbat is concerned. As for any arrangements you had made with, say, your employer, well, that's a different matter. (probably not much of problem for Sunday, but what if it had moved backwards to Friday instead? Some apparently hold that Shabbat in Hawaii is properly on Friday, which sounds challenging.)

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Hm, simple day-counting (ignoring all date lines) would also seem to present problems for any Jew who circumnavigates the globe.

...which I seem to recall you talked about at some point, but likely I misremember.

[fauxklore]

I have that magnetic globe. I need to find the address for the pieces because I lost part of the Pacific Ocean in the course of moving.

And, by the way, it isn't only Samoa that is changing the calendar. Tokelau is also. I was speculating on the Shabbos question earlier today myself.

[cellio]

I think I saw that globe 20 years ago, so part of me wondered if they were still in business. Have they been sending out updates automatically? (Did you get South Sudan?)

[cellio]

Good question -- were there Jews there before the first move and they've been on the wrong day for 120 years, or did the Jews only come after that move and establish Saturday Shabbat as expected, only to be messed up now? Apparently there's no community there now; I wonder if there ever was.

[fauxklore]

They might if I had ever remembered to update my address with them. I've moved three times since I got the globe, so, yeah, it was a long time ago.

[littlekatydid.livejournal.com]

Hi there, Paquerette suggested we become friends, as I'm starting (or trying to get up the nerve to start) the conversion process myself. :)
Friends?

[cellio]

Hello and welcome!