daf bit: Bechorot 52

[cellio]

The torah tells us that land in Eretz Yisrael cannot be sold beyond redemption; during the Yovel (jubilee), every 50 years, all holdings return to their ancestral tribes. The mishna on today's daf discusses this, saying that the following do not return during the Yovel: the double share (inheritance) of the first-born; the inheritance from one's wife and of one who marries his sister-in-law; and a gift. These are the words of R. Meir. But the sages say that a gift is like a sale and does return, and R. Eleazar says all these return because (according to the g'mara) when property is divided among heirs it is like a sale. (52b)

Comments

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

But in the case of division among heirs, how exactly can the property be returned to the (presumably deceased) former owner?

[cellio]

Sorry for the confusion. Tribes, not individuals; the land was originally parceled out among the tribes, and every 50 years there's supposed to be a reset. This isn't done today; I'm not sure of all the reasons, but one is presumably that we can't identify most of the tribes any more.

[loxian.livejournal.com]

I was just about to ask what happened nowadays.

[gingicat]

Now I wonder if this is the basis for "of COURSE Eretz Yisrael still belongs to the Jews!"

Note: I was raised to that belief, and I am not saying it's right or wrong or or or... just wondering.

[cellio]

I'd always assumed that "I will give you this land, from (boundary) to (boundary)" was the basis.

[geekosaur]

Interesting. I would have thought the bit about Tzelofchad's daughters would have supported R' Meir.

[cellio]

Oh, good point. I don't know.

[zevabe.livejournal.com]

Actually, Tzelophchad's daughters prove Rabbi Elazar more. The leaders of the tribe of Menashe point out at the end of the book that they'll marry some other tribe, and then that share will go to the husband from the other tribe. So Menashe loses out. Thus a rule is made that daughters who inherit must marry within their tribe.

In the full analysis, whether this land eventually reverts or not is unproven by this. If it never reverts, so obviously the leaders of Menashe have a just claim of loss (which might have been balanced by fairness to the inheriting women). If it reverts, so the claim is: I don't want some other tribe to have it for many years until the next Jubilee.

[cellio]

But the talmud here is talking about land that isn't returned during the Yovel. If the land would be returned, then Menashe is out for 1-49 years (depending on where they were), but not forever -- but there are other ways for land to temporarily pass out of one tribe to another, so is that a big deal? If the land could never come back then that strongly supports telling the daughters to marry within the tribe; if the land was going to return anyway, then that's less clear to me. What am I missing?

[geekosaur]

Right; what I'm thinking is that the need for that modification to the Tzelofchad ruling seems to indicate that the default behavior in the absence of it would be permanent transfer, matching what R' Meir said.