daf bit: Eruvin 55

[cellio]

The torah tells us (D'varim 30:12-13) that the torah is not in heaven, that we should say "who shall go up for us and get it?", nor across the sea, that we should say "who will go over and bring it to us?", but it is very close. The rabbis on today's daf discuss this. R. Abdimi b. Hama b. Dosa said: if it were in heaven you should have gone up to get it and if it were across the sea you should have gone over to get it (so it must not be either, I understand him to be saying). Raba said: "it is not in heaven" means it is not to be found with one who towers in pride of his torah knowledge as high as the mountains, and "it is not beyond the sea" means it is not to be found with one whose self-esteem due to learning is as expansive as the sea. R. Yochanan said: "it is not in heaven" means it is not to be found among the arrogant, and "it is not beyond the sea" means it is not to be found among merchants or dealers. (55a)

One of these cases is not like the others; "merchants and dealers" doesn't seem to be about personal qualities like the rest.

According to Raba and R. Yochanan, if you think you have torah and are bold about it, you don't really. Having torah is more than just knowing the law and being able to quote texts; you have to live it too. (This is my own interpretation on their words, obviously. Anything below the citation in these posts always is.)

Comments

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

One of these cases is not like the others; "merchants and dealers" doesn't seem to be about personal qualities like the rest.

Maybe he was thinking of People Who Import Stuff?
(IDK.)

[siderea]

That was what I was about to say. "It is not to be found among merchants or dealers" means it is not to be found among the wealthy.

But I'm not hearing these "to be about personal qualities". All of these comments strike me as how not to go looking for the torah: Don't go looking to heaven to tell you the torah (unverified personal gnosis), because it's not there. Don't go looking to those to have told you they have it all figured out and accept what they tell you as torah, they don't have it either. Don't take a scholar's arguments about the torah as the torah just because he's more learned than you are, because we're Jews and that's not how we roll, and the torah isn't so inscrutable it's only available to a scholar-priest class. Don't go thinking you can buy the torah, either. And above all, don't be using any of these as silly-ass excuses for not confronting the torah which is right here in front of you.

(Had to have a conversation with an recovering addict today, which may be tempering my interpretation.)

[cellio]

Oh, interesting! I was reading it as "people like this have no torah even though they think/claim they do", rather than "don't go looking there". The latter follows from the former, but I was looking at the prospective source while you were looking at the seeker.

I like this a lot.

[dvarin.livejournal.com]

Not tempered out of reason though IMO. Reading blind to context, this is the primary meaning I'd take out of it also--that there's no justification for delegating to someone else rather than seeking for yourself.