daf bit: Kiddushin 48

[cellio]

When a man betroths a woman he must give her something of (at least small) value. Today we use a ring, but it could be anything so long as its value can be ascertained. The mishna teaches: if a man says to a woman "be thou betrothed to me with this wine" and it's found to be honey or "with honey" and it's found to be wine; or "with this gold dinar" and it's found to be silver or "with this silver dinar" and it's found to be gold; or "on condition that I am rich" and he's found to be poor or "on condition that I am poor" and he's found to be rich -- in all these cases, she is not betrothed. R' Shimon says: if he deceived her to her advantage (for example in the case where the silver coin turns out to be gold), then she is betrothed. (48b)

I don't understand conditional betrothals. As far as I can tell this isn't about some future state (if I am wealthy when it's time to get married); betrothal takes effect, or doesn't, immediately, so the state of the condition must be known, right?

Comments

[kayre]

Schrodinger's betrothal?

[talvinm.livejournal.com]

"On condition"...was something lost in translation, there? Would "on the understanding that" be a reasonable translation of the original? I am merely speculating: it would make the original make more sense, but I understand that these things don't always seem to make sense to modern eyes.

[isaac e. moses (from livejournal.com)]

I'm not sure, but I'm envisioning a pick-up gone extreme: A man rides into town and meets a woman. They hit it off, and he buys a ring and proposes. She likes him, but doesn't see it working out if he can't provide. He reassures her that he's got a nice house and good, steady source of income back home. She agrees to accept the betrothal as long as what he's saying is true.

Bear in mind that big decisions had to be made with less information immediately available back before telecommunications were invented. Also, standard gender roles were, of course, much different, such that it was much more important for a woman to secure a husband to protect and provide for her, so it might be worth it to jump into a commitment without all of the relevant facts totally verified.

Also, of course, the Mishna and Gemara are full of thought experiments that may never have actually been realized, but were discussed and recorded to expose the core principles.

[cellio]

These are very good points. It's not like the rabbis of the mishna were anticipating people Googling their prospective partners. :-)