I'm wondering if it's the context of responding to praise.
Oh, interesting. If I don't yet know how the person will react, I'm more clearly just providing information rather than trying to influence the person to draw a conclusion.
Come to think of it, while I'm pretty hard-core in the camp of there being a moral responsibility to give credit, the gross shenanigans I've personally witnessed in SCA order meetings having to do with promoting candidates (miss-attributing the work of others to the candidate, exaggerating the work of the candidate, fawning over their work far in excess of its actual merit, e.g., all of which are ultimately to the detriment of the reputation of the candidate) suggests to me that maybe Rabbi has a point.
I'm pretty hard-core about giving credit too, both before and after the question comes up. Isn't the problem with the order shenanigans we've both seen the misrepresentation, though? I've been taking it as a given that in both the talmudic discussion and your and my personal practices, the information is truthful. Sadly, not everything said in order discussions is.
There is this behavior I've observed where people try to promote their friends and household members, and do this sort of talking up, which really does do those they do this "favor" harm.
Yes. Can't people see that they're harming the people they're promoting when they do this? Is that any way to treat a good friend? I would be horrified to find out that I'd received an award not based on my merits but on false information about what turned out not to be my merits. (That almost happened to me once, actually -- not exactly misrepresentation, but somebody was campaigning to get me an award I clearly had not met the criteria for. I got wind of it and wrote to the royalty saying "please don't do that", which was all kinds of awkward because polling discussions are supposed to be secret, but not doing it was worse.)
All that said, it wouldn't seem (to me, anyway) like "This manuscript is excellent", "Oh, it's not my work. The credit goes to R' Soandso." is an example of campaigning.
Yeah. So it's still puzzling me in the end.
I recently learned how to interpret some marginalia pointing to the relevant halacha, and there's a note on this passage, so I hope to decipher that note soon to see where it takes me.
no subject
Oh, interesting. If I don't yet know how the person will react, I'm more clearly just providing information rather than trying to influence the person to draw a conclusion.
Come to think of it, while I'm pretty hard-core in the camp of there being a moral responsibility to give credit, the gross shenanigans I've personally witnessed in SCA order meetings having to do with promoting candidates (miss-attributing the work of others to the candidate, exaggerating the work of the candidate, fawning over their work far in excess of its actual merit, e.g., all of which are ultimately to the detriment of the reputation of the candidate) suggests to me that maybe Rabbi has a point.
I'm pretty hard-core about giving credit too, both before and after the question comes up. Isn't the problem with the order shenanigans we've both seen the misrepresentation, though? I've been taking it as a given that in both the talmudic discussion and your and my personal practices, the information is truthful. Sadly, not everything said in order discussions is.
There is this behavior I've observed where people try to promote their friends and household members, and do this sort of talking up, which really does do those they do this "favor" harm.
Yes. Can't people see that they're harming the people they're promoting when they do this? Is that any way to treat a good friend? I would be horrified to find out that I'd received an award not based on my merits but on false information about what turned out not to be my merits. (That almost happened to me once, actually -- not exactly misrepresentation, but somebody was campaigning to get me an award I clearly had not met the criteria for. I got wind of it and wrote to the royalty saying "please don't do that", which was all kinds of awkward because polling discussions are supposed to be secret, but not doing it was worse.)
All that said, it wouldn't seem (to me, anyway) like "This manuscript is excellent", "Oh, it's not my work. The credit goes to R' Soandso." is an example of campaigning.
Yeah. So it's still puzzling me in the end.
I recently learned how to interpret some marginalia pointing to the relevant halacha, and there's a note on this passage, so I hope to decipher that note soon to see where it takes me.