daf bit: Menachot 41

[cellio]

The torah commands men to place tzitzit (fringes) on the corners of their garments. Is this an obligation on the person or on the garment? That is, are you required to wear a garment with corners (and attach tzitzit to them), or are you allowed to wear anything, but if it is a garment with corners, you must put tzitzit on it? In the g'mara, Rabbah bar R' Huna says it is an obligation on the garment, and not just the garment you're currently wearing -- all of your four-cornered garments must have tzitzit. There is some disagreement, and then the g'mara tells the following story:

An angel once found R' Kattina wearing a wrap (a garment that does not require tzitzit) and exclaimed: "Kattina, Kattina -- a wrap in summer and a cloak in winter, and what is to happen to the law of tzitzit?" R' Kattina answered: "and do you punish a person who omits to perform a positive precept?" "In a time of wrath, yes", the angel said. Now if you hold that tzitzit is an obligation on the person this makes sense, but if it's an obligation on the garment, why is there any punishment incurred? R' Kattina argued thus to the angel, asking "would the All-Merciful punish somebody for wearing a garment not subject to tzitzit?" The angel replied, "you find every excuse to free yourself from the law of tzitzit." (41a)

Despite the angel's opinion, as I understand it the halacha is according to Rabbah -- the obligation is on the garment, not on the person -- but there is really strong urging to seek out the opportunity because it's an established custom and not difficult.

Comments

[gingicat]

That explains the arba kanfot undershirts.

[cellio]

Yup. Not *strictly* required, but an opportunity to fulfill the mitzvah and, within the traditional community, functionally required for that reason.

[magid]

And yet, established custom for gentlemen. Not so much for women, though I do know a number who observe it.

(Why are rectangular scarves exempt? No idea.)

[cellio]

There is a minimum size below which an item isn't considered a garment (a *beged*). I'm not sure what that size is; there are probably multiple opinions.

And yeah, the rabbis understand that only men are commanded in this, though I've seen women observe it too. (More for the *talit gadol*, the visible outer one used for morning prayers, but also a couple who were wearing the *talit katan* under the shirt.)

[magid]

Ah, minimum size makes sense (and does call into question the size I tend to call "papal tallises" (definitely not tallitot in my world; brains are weird)).

I've seen women wearing tallit gadol (more frequently in non-Orthodox situations, but sometimes also there), and sometimes tallit katan as well (easier to tell if the tzitzit are out, though!).

[cellio]

Yes, I'd only ever know about a talit katan if they were wearing the tzitzit out. I've seen that a couple times, I think at NHC. I assume but can't prove that women wearing tzitzit "in" is quite uncommon.