Japanese milk rolls (second try)

[cellio]

My first CSA box came with local flour (with a milling date! never seen that before), and one of their recipe suggestions was Japanese milk rolls. My first try did not go well; it seems I did not knead it long enough, and so I got dense blobs where fluffy rolls were supposed to be. (Still edible, but clearly not the intended results.) The second time, today, I said hey, I have tools for this, and used the bread machine to do the kneading. (I've never used it to make dough before, always finished bread.)

At the end of the kneading the dough formed a nice ball; after the rise it was bigger (not doubled) and more of a blob. That is, it didn't make a bigger ball. I don't know if it's supposed to. The next step was to separate it, make eight balls, and put them in a pan to rise again for 45-50 minutes. The dough was very sticky and that made it hard to shape; I sprinkled a little flour onto it while working with it so it didn't all stick to my hands. I don't know if that's so standard with bread that it goes without saying (this beginner didn't know, if so), or if that's not supposed to be necessary and I did something wrong.

The proto-rolls did expand in this second rise (I failed to take a "before" picture). The final product is definitely better than try #1, though they're still less fluffy than I expected from reading the recipe. I wouldn't be embarrassed to serve them to guests, but I will probably stick with less-fussy breads in the future. (This one involves making a "starter" (tangzhong) that's sort of like a roux. That, too, is new to me for bread.)

Comments

[tassosss]

*drive by comment from Network*

Those look great! I've made these before, and they can be a little tricky. Bread machines make great kneaders. When doing it by hand, I use 10 minutes as a rule of thumb if that helps. I usually save out the last half cup of flour the recipe calls for (and sometimes more!) and flour the counter with it, and when it's all absorbed and the dough doesn't stick to the counter when kneading that's usually when I call it ready to rise.

After kneading, the first rise gets a little bigger but won't double in size because it's an enriched dough with all that milk in there. I usually let it rise for 90 minutes. I cover the bowl with cling wrap and put it under the stove light so the temperature is a little higher for the rise - my house tends to run a little cold this time of year.

If the dough was sticky at shaping it probably means you could add more flour while kneading. It should be more on the tacky side, where it won't stick to your fingers or the counter before the first rise. Definitely A-ok to add flour while shaping to keep it from sticking, though! I do that when things need that balancing out. I also tend to err on the longer side for the second rise, with 50-60 minutes. (Again, slightly chilly house!) but it looks like yours did just fine.

They look beautiful!

[hudebnik]

I've never made these "milk rolls", but I've made a fair amount of bread over the years, including a batch of sourdough whole-wheat bread two days ago. Quantities in bread recipes are always approximate, and vary with temperature and humidity and phase of moon. I've usually had the best results on rainy or very-humid days in the summer. If it's too soft and sticky, sprinkle some more flour on the kneading surface and knead until it's incorporated. If it's too firm and stiff, sprinkle some water or milk on the kneading surface and knead until it's incorporated. Some cookbook author said the texture before rising should feel like your earlobe.

[cellio]

Thanks for the tips! With all I've heard about precise measuring being important in baking, I didn't think about variance due to environmental factors less severe than "lives in Denver". (Poor Denver, always getting called out for variations in recipes...)

[cellio]

Welcome, drive-by commenter, and thanks for all the useful information! Thanks for the tip about temperature; I never thought to use the oven light for that. (The first time I let it rise in a bowl covered by a towel in a warmer room; the second time I let it rise in the bread machine, figuring that's already designed for that.)

With everything I've heard about precise measuring being important in baking, I didn't know if adding flour like that would be ok. Now I know. :-)

[kayre]

For what it's worth, I'm an experienced baker; I recently tried the milk rolls recipe from King Arthur Flour and wasn't particularly impressed. I used a bread machine for many years, both to completely bake bread and to prepare dough; I only recently switched to doing it all in my stand mixer for more control over the process.

[littleweeds]

They look delicious!

[minoanmiss]

People who know more about bread baking than I have already told you all I could have and more, so I will just say they look lovely. :)