(no subject)
Dec. 13th, 2001 11:00 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cellioI met with my rabbi this morning. More about our rambling philosophical conversation later, but one outcome is that we're going to study talmud together. (This arose from my saying that in order to make informed decisions I need to develop the tools, and how do I do that?) I know it's traditional to start with Bava Metzia, but most of the issues I brought up in passing, to illustrate points, were about Shabbat, so we're going to start there.
I've never done one-on-one talmud study before; this will be neat. I've taken a couple classes with Rabbi Staitman over at Rodef (where I was by far the most engaged person in the class, to the point of feeling self-conscious about it), and I receive "classes" via the net that are not very interactive at all (lectures, really, though questions are taken). But this will be much better, and will let us ramble in whatever direction seems most appropriate.
I've never done one-on-one talmud study before; this will be neat. I've taken a couple classes with Rabbi Staitman over at Rodef (where I was by far the most engaged person in the class, to the point of feeling self-conscious about it), and I receive "classes" via the net that are not very interactive at all (lectures, really, though questions are taken). But this will be much better, and will let us ramble in whatever direction seems most appropriate.
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-13 08:39 am (UTC)And I know what you mean about being the most engaged person in the class, to the point of feeling self-conscious about it...wierd feeling, huh?
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-13 08:53 am (UTC)Sure is! And I really didn't expect it, especially the first time it happened. I mean, here I was, a non-Jew who (at that time) had not even been to services, but was just in absorb-everything-I-can mode to figure out if this was the right path for me, and the first class I was the one asking the questions. Not aggressively, mind, and I sat on a lot, but I think I knew enough to ask good questions (not FAQs), and the rabbi's reaction seemed to confirm that. But I was almost certainly the least-educated person in the room, and I was seeing connections that either no one else was seeing or no one else was speaking up about. Weird! Yeah, I like to think I'm of above-average intelligence, but still... this was a group of adults voluntarily taking a talmud class, so they were probably all pretty bright, too. But not engaged.
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-13 02:25 pm (UTC)I wonder if there are similar interactions in Christianity. Christianity is more and more attractive to me, but I'd need to really think about it and study it hard, and having someone to work with to do that could be very helpful...
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-13 02:38 pm (UTC)I would expect so. (I bet our mutual friend Mike could offer some advice here, if he's listening.) Many churches have adult-ed programs, which might be bible study or might be something more. I would recommend showing up at some of these to see if that fulfills your initial need
and, if not, if you can find a prospective study partner among the attendees (priest/minister, lay leader/teacher, etc). I know some Christian clergy locally who would be really into this, and others who are probably busy, so you just have to poke around.
Of course, this requires that you find one or more candidate congregations first, which means addressing the denomination question. The approach I took with Judaism was simultaneous investigation of all major branches, but we've only got 3 of those and Christianity has a lot more. You'd want to do some homework to narrow the field, and then just explore from there. Unless someone offers an inter-denominational bible study or the like, in which case you could postpone this step.
This is all by way of finding a study partner; you don't actually have to join a congregation if you don't want to, and might not be permitted to anyway until you are of the correct religion (baptized and whatever other entry requirements there are).
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-13 02:49 pm (UTC)I'll bet rubylou knows some people in your area...
Cool!
Date: 2001-12-13 02:51 pm (UTC)Talmud study just ain't the same doing it solo. Of course, what do I know, never having really had a steady talmud partner. Or really studying Talmud in any organized fashion. I took a meta-talmud class once... um...
Seriously, though, I've got lots of friends who are Rabbis and/or Rabbinical students, and from what I've heard, it's the one on one which can be really fun.
Re: Cool!
Date: 2001-12-13 06:06 pm (UTC)That's what I've heard, and I'm really looking forward to experiencing it.
I tried to pick up the relevant volume (Schottenstein, not Steinsaltz) tonight, but they didn't have it in stock. So I have to wait, but they said I shouldn't have to wait long. Maybe a week or so.
Re: Cool!
Date: 2001-12-13 06:24 pm (UTC)I have a great deal of respect for Rav. Steinsaltz and his translations.
(Must... not... say... lashon... hara...)
And, er, um, the Art Scroll Edition, um...
(Must... say... something... positive...)
I've heard it has very nice binding.
(Aaaaugh! Must... keep... control...)
And to take the footnotes with about 6.022x10^25 molecules of NaCl.
(Aaaah! It's too much! I can't stop myself!)
Rav Artscroll has an agenda, and misses no opportunity to push his point of view despite the strength, or lack thereof, of the sources. And, of course, when it's your book, you don't have to print the opposing viewpoints if you don't want to. (darn, I knew I wouldn't be able to hold out...)
(Must... hit... post comment... now
Re: Cool!
Date: 2001-12-13 06:31 pm (UTC)Isn't Steinsaltz either out of print or incomplete, though?
I find your comments interesting, in light of the fact that it was a Reform rabbi who told me what to get -- and a Reform rabbi who has issues with some of the Orthodox interpretations.
I wouldn't be surprised if my rabbi has many of the cited sources on his bookshelf, BTW. I never cease to be amazed by what he can casually pull down to answer a question I have.
But thanks for the heads-up!
By the way, it is very nice binding. :-)
Re: Cool!
Date: 2001-12-13 07:23 pm (UTC)It's incomplete. Steinsaltz is only one man, and he puts a lot of effort into it... and the other projects that he does. And that means that it takes a lot of time!
it was a Reform rabbi who told me what to get -- and a Reform rabbi who has issues with some of the Orthodox interpretations
Well, I've heard it's mainly the footnotes you've gotta be wary of... and if you're studying with someone who knows what they're doing, they can tell you where ArtScroll is going out on a limb. (I actually just had this conversation with a Conservative rabbi recently... who said that she uses the ArtScroll translation on occasion, with some salt included.)
Re: Cool!
Date: 2001-12-13 08:00 pm (UTC)Yes, I will be studying with a rabbi, not on my own. Besides, gemara is hard! I don't think I'm capable of studying it effectively on my own.
(no subject)
Date: 2001-12-13 09:51 pm (UTC)Reading the catechism (the newer one not the Baltimore Catechism) helped me a lot. Later I took some classes and that helped some more. At this point, I'll take a class if it is an enrichment class or if it helps me complete my certification. I'm making an effort to got to the Oratory to attend discussions on different topics. There are a lot of programs done by various parishes or the diocese. From what I gather from friends, other churches have programs and bible studies too.
I go back and forth with myself sometimes trying to decide if I should look for a spiritual advisor. That would be someone who you talk to about your life and they help you to determine your path and guide you down it. One of the things they do is provide a perspective on your spiritual life outside your own. This is useful because sometimes our own perspective can get in the way of us making progress. I know of one or two people that I would consider asking but that doesn't seem to be my way. Though, maybe it should be.